According to Scripture (Sola Scriptura)

http://www.catholic.com ^ | Tim Staples

[NKP_Vet]

"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.

What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?

[Elsie]

It is sad that many will never know how the Book of Mormon is like the Urim and Thummim that unlock so many passages in the Bible so many try to read the scriptures like they would a academic book, but the language of the Bible is spiritual and is receive by the power of the Holy Ghost.

The HISTORY of the Book of MORMON is a FABRICATION; as posts #381 and #382

PROVE!!

[Elsie]

Here we have Jesus show up in our image, many traditionalist believe that the Father and Son are one substance, where as the LDS believe two separate personages but they are one in mind.

For those with just a little knowledge of Mormonism; a 'personage' is a GOD.

---

Jesus Christ is God’s Son, spiritually and physically.

He calls Him Father, He prays to Him.
We are to pray to Him, God the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, His Son.
God’s voice was heard at Christ’s baptism, coming from Heaven while He was in the water. The Holy Sirit also descended. Three seperate entities/Gods.

Santorum endorses one-time rival Romney

Thursday, May 10, 2012 12:32:46 AM · 416 of 492
Jeff Head to stpio

[Elsie]

(click)

Praise to the Man!

 

 

 

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

[af_vet_1981]

Per your comments in 162, you wrote 6 million Jews in the Holocaust were persecuted and exterminated because of prophetic judgment, the sins of their fathers. Do you dispute the 6 million figure ?

In 188 you went on to write that they cannot be Jews unless they are born again Christians and that if not they belong to the synagouge of Satan. Then you have the dissembling audacity to write "Where did I say there are no Jews ?" I never wrote that you are antisemitic; the doctrine you are caught up in is antisemitic on its face. It is very much in line with the Islamic view. The only Israel your doctrine recognizes is a heavenly one; it denies a current physical nation of Israel on planet Earth, any promises to that nation, and of course supports disinvestment of that nation. Any genocide of that nation is a consequence of the sins of their fathers and a fulfillment of prophecy. Your doctrine teaches these Jews are forever cursed and their promises taken away and given to your church. Replacement Theology in a nutshell;

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Per your comments in 162, you wrote 6 million Jews in the Holocaust were persecuted and exterminated because of prophetic judgment, the sins of their fathers. Do you dispute the 6 million figure ? <<<

Are you trying to stir up something with your innuendo? My words in 162 stand exactly as written. I recommend everyone read that post.

Moses prophesied that great evil would befall the children of Israel in the last days because of their own evil. God routinely used evil nations to punish Israel's evil. It is plain as day in the old Testament.

Do you have another interpretation?

>>>In 188 you went on to write that they cannot be Jews unless they are born again Christians and that if not they belong to the synagouge of Satan. Then you have the dissembling audacity to write "Where did I say there are no Jews ?"<<

This is just an observation that I would like you to confirm or deny: are you trying to rewrite the Word of God? Are you uncomfortable with the Word of God? When the Word of God says we are all one blood, does that bother you? Are you a racist?

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;" (Acts 17:24-26 KJV)

I strongly recommend you study that passage, in particular the highlighted part.

>>>Your doctrine teaches these Jews are forever cursed and their promises taken away and given to your church. Replacement Theology in a nutshell;<<<

Your doctrine might say that, but mine doesn't. Besides, I am unsure I even know what replacement theology means, except that dispensationalists use is as some sort of smear tactic. Are you dispensationalist?

My family has been very blessed. For that fact alone, I know that Jews who convert to Christ are not cursed, or are no longer cursed. If there is any doctrine that is anti-Jew, it is dispensationalism. They, (unknowningly,) have placed a stumblingblock in front of those who adhere to the doctrine of Judaism, by convincing many that their way is still the way to salvation. That thinking is so "upside-down" it is beyond belief how anyone every came up with it. Yet many are taught that from childhood, thanks to the false "dual-covenant" doctrine of dispensationalism (I do know that that means.)

I want to make this crystal clear: the Church is going nowhere. It is eternal. It will be with us forever, from one generation to the next. Anyone that teaches otherwise is a false teacher.

In summary, the Church is eternal, and Jews that remain in Judaism and do not accept Christ will be destroyed, as Moses prophesied. I will post Moses' words again since you seem to have trouble putting what I write into context:

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." (Acts 3:22-23 KJV)

How do you interpret that? Was Moses lying? I eagerly await your answer.

When trying to figure out "replacement theology," in relation to the doctrine of dispensationalism (since they are the only ones who seem to know what it means,) that phrase appears to be used as a attempt to smear anyone who believes that Jesus Christ fulfilled the old covenant(s). The Word of God says Jesus did fulfill them. Is that why you are trying to smear me? Do you not believe Jesus fulfilled the old covenants?

>>>I never wrote that you are antisemitic; the doctrine you are caught up in is antisemitic on its face.<<<

You are saying the Word of God is anti-semitic? That I am anti-semitic? It is impossible for me to be anti-semitic, unless I hate myself.

I think your dispensational desire that all to be true you have been taught thoughout your life has clouded your judgement. For that reason, you smear anyone that opposes anything in your indoctrination. It will not work with me.

>>>It is very much in line with the Islamic view.<<<

How could that be? The Islamic religion is also antichristian. I am opposed to any religion that believes that Christ is not God the Father, which is the spirit of antichrist. John made that very clear:

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." (2 Jn 1:7-11 KJV)

If I were you, knowing what I know now, I would truly study that last, highlighted verse until I understood it.

>>>Any genocide of that nation is a consequence of the sins of their fathers and a fulfillment of prophecy.<<<

Read it again. Moses said Israel's sins would lead to judgement against them. If they are still Israel, then their sins caused all the judgements against them. The only way your doctrine would apply is if they are no longer Israel, which is anathema to a dispensationalist. You are going to have to learn to deal with the plain Words of God.

Jesus said the Jews of his day had the same sins as their fathers, and would prove it, which they did. They not only killed Jesus, but many of his apostles and saints.

I can understand you being uncomfortable with the Word of God. It caused me major grief. A lot of those of Israel that Jesus, Moses and the prophets was referring to were my relatives. But I learned to deal with it, once I realize the blessings available from Jesus Christ. You might too, if you would only accept him. And to accept him, you have to accept his Word:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48 KJV)

If you don't come to Christ you will be cursed. That applies to all, since we are all one blood.

Philip

[roamer_1]

Lol! Thanks. But I seem to recall that many of those who read it every day didn’t understand it. They expected the physical return of Elijah, and an earthly king. Is that correct?

It is hubris to think that Christianity is doing any better.

[restornu]

Good fine Elise, but the Characters are not the same which says something completely different.

[af_vet_1981]

1. Were 6 million Jews, descended physically from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob murdered in the Holocaust by wicked hands ? 2. Does your church support disinvestment from the nation of Israel regathered in the land of Israel, and whose government is currently headed by a Jew, Benjamin Netanyahu ? 3. When you get a blood transfusion, do/will you say your blood type is the same as everyone else ? 4. Do you use the men's or women's facilities, whichever has the shorter line ? 5. Do you tell your master/supervisor that you don't take orders/commands ? Yeah, try that in any branch of the Armed Forces.
We live in a physical dimension, with the promise of a spiritual inheritance which is not less real. Yet the physical still remains, with its divisions and, we hope, trust, and believe by faith, its promises. Those promises belong to Israel, to the Jews, and include the Gentiles. The problem with your doctrine is it teaches you that everything has been fulfilled and completed. Replacement theology and preterism are its fruit, not to mention a lot of Jews martyred for being Jews. It is why the muslimin hate Israel; the very existence of a physical, real nation of Israel in our generation invalidates their replacement theology where they (believe they) have replaced Israel, and so it must be removed from the face of the earth. Dare I write the crusader phrase ? And so the Reformed Presbyterian schismatics/rebels will not lift a finger to help Israel as they too believe the current nation of Jews returned to the Land of Israel (do you even still call it that today ?) are illegitimate. Replacement theology and Preterism in a nutshell

[roamer_1]

I have no idea what Replacement Theology is. I have heard it mentioned a few times during the few sermons of John Hagee that I braved. What is it?

in a word, Supersessionism

[roamer_1]

Where did you get that notion?

What was the purpose of Creation? What was it that was made BY Him For Him? Do you suppose YHWH was confounded in His purpose? John the Revelator saw Jerusalem coming down. The heavenly Temple, if it follows the pattern of the earthly Jerusalem, sits in it's midst.

[Elsie]

Good fine Elise, but the Characters are not the same which says something completely different.

You have made a correct analysis: they AREN'T the same indeed!

The RED part of the image was MISSING from JS' original document; and he MADE UP what he thought was SUPPOSED to be there!

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You know, restornu, I get on your case quite hard at times; pounding you with facts and logic.

I know this is no way to convince you of the error of Mormonism; for Facts & Logic was not what convinced you about MormonISM to begin with.

It was emotion and feelings that have persuaded you, and I have no idea how to conjour up the opposite effect.

I can only pray that GOD has plans for you that I know not of.

---

In the mean time; I'll continue to pummel these threads with data supplied by MormonISM itself; hoping that others who have a fairly intact reasoning process about them will have the ears to hear and the eyes to see.

[roamer_1]

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

If one has a grasp on the Torah, this has a very profound meaning, and explains perfectly why Yeshua was sent only for the 'House of Israel'.

[roamer_1]

it is another world than I grew up on when I was mainstream it was like kindergarten folks were so simple than they either were one or the other in all the faiths I was familiar with Protestants, Catholic, or Jewish.

Yeah, I get that. Me too. But one must understand that there is bound to be more that prefer milk to meat. Sometimes I wonder if theirs is the advantage - belief without burden...

In spite of the hard heads there was goodwill towards their neighbor not it like trying today to annihilate one another as I witness so often for dare to have a thought contrary to the Tradition, that has been handed down from century to century.

*shrugs* lots of hard things were said when all y'all stood up here and demanded to be counted - Then came Romney... pretty much messed up any compromise that might have been possible. It is tough sledding, but it is what it is. While I don't agree with y'all, nor can I ever, I try pretty hard not to hack on *YOU*, even though my words against your beliefs are adamant. Kinda the same deal as with the Catlicks. But then, I am in the Northern Rockies (MT), which mountains are known to be inhabited by folks that know and embrace rugged individualism and civil-libertarianism, and where I grow among and I know many fine Mormon folks, so maybe my toleration is better than others because of it.

As to Tradition, I too am on the outside though differently than y'all, and my observation agrees with yours whole-heartedly. Most who claim sola-scriptura have just as much !!!TRADITION!!! as those who claim tradition do...

But then, It is knowledge of the truth that matters, and when all the dust settles, all I can hope for is that our King grades on a curve, because all of us here have an earnestness of belief, regardless of the lies of men that we may have absorbed. Thanks a bunch for the music : )

[PhilipFreneau]

Me: >>>>boatbums, you stated the above in this post to me. I am asking again: please provide me a list of those other prophets who spoke of Elijah. Thanks<<<<

Boatbums: >>>Malachi 4:5 specifically and Isaiah 40:3 and Joel 2:31 allude to the purpose of Elijah in the end times.<<<

Everyone knows Elijah is mentioned in Malachi. If the other two verses were referring to Elijah, would they not mention him by name. The Joel reference is silent. Isaiah 40:3 is clearly referring to John the Baptist, which you confirmed in your John 1:19-25 reference. This is Elijah and John, respectively:

"The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." (Isa 40:3-5 KJV)

"And they asked [John the Baptist,] What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias." (John 1:21-23 KJV)

John, the author of the gospel, confirmed:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight." (Mat 3:1-3 KJV)

Jesus also said John the Baptist fulfilled Malachi 3:1:

"But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. " (Mat 11:9-10 KJV)

You can't have it both ways, boatbums. John is either Elijah, or he is the "voice of one crying in the wilderness," or both. But he cannot be, as you claim, Elijah in one instance as "the voice," and not in the other.

>>>And one more point about John the Baptist being Elijah the Prophet, he was asked by the religious leaders if he was Elijah:<<<

"Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.” They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” (John 1:19-21)

That is the dispensational argument. But John would only know if he was the Elijah referred to in Malachi if it was revealed to him. Jesus said, on more than one occasion, that John was the Elijah that fulfilled the prophecy of Malachi.

I believe what Jesus said on this matter, as I have written over and over again. All the points you have brought up to dispute Jesus are your opinions, or the opinions of others. It can only mean that you either misinterpreted the original prophecy of Malachi, or you misinterpreted God's Word in 2nd Kings.

>>Finally, I won't argue with you about Dispensationalism here for two reasons.<<

Did I ask you to? I don't recall.

>>>One, this thread was posted by a Catholic who wanted to prove Catholicism is superior to any other Christian denomination based on the fact that we don't all agree about everything. We've explained that agreeing on the essentials is what matters and we generally do - with the exception of fringe, wanna-be Christian groups. Continuing to argue like you are against fellow non-Catholic Christians over nonessential doctrines only furthers their misconception.<<<

Specific Christian doctrine was posted by others. I responded with my doctrine. Are you going to go after them, as well; or are you singling me out because you don't happen to agree with my doctrine? This is where it all began, mostly:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3116855/posts?page=116#116

I responded with this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3116855/posts?page=128#128

Soon afterward Cynical Bear came into the conversation with this opinion:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3116855/posts?page=134#134

I was responding to a historical reference by redleghunter. I reminded him that I had posted tons of scripture in answering his previous questions; and I asked him to respond with something to support his doctrine. The conversation went downhill after that. This is where Cynical Bear started getting really nasty:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3116855/posts?page=207#207

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3116855/posts?page=218#214

In #218 I had to ask him to refrain from calling me "Dude" and labelling me a preterist:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3116855/posts?page=218#218

You would have known that, boatbums, if you had followed the conversation. Therefore, I must conclude that your attacks on me have nothing to do with the quantity of my posts; but rather that you do not like what I am saying.

>>>Like you have been asked several times, open a new thread and we can make it the topic - you claimed you were too busy to do that yet you continue to add comments trying to provoke further discussion on this thread.<<<

I said I would start another thread, and I will. But there is too much posted on this thread that I disagree with: for example, this post by you on Elijah. I responded previously to Cynical Bear that if he wanted me to start another thread, why did he ask me first about half-dozen pointed questions that he should have know required lengthy answers? Do you get my point, at all?

>>>The second reason is we should be able to discuss differences without resorting to ridicule, mockery, snideness and condescension.<<<

I agree 100%. I assume you are going to direct the same point to Cynical Bear.

>>> I may not agree with everything Dispensationalism teaches, but those that do are RARELY nasty and insulting towards those who aren't.<<<

Now you are really insulting my intelligence.

>>>This is not the first time the subject has come up on the RF. I hope you invest as much time and energy in defending your faith in Jesus Christ against false gospels - and there are plenty out there.<<<

I do, all the time.

Philip

[restornu]

I have come to understand that many do not believe in a resurrected Jesus of having a body of flesh and bone. I think Scofield was one of the people to start that concept.

That's ok; because the founder of your chosen religion went the OTHER way and claimed that the Father has a body of flesh.

***

You forgot BONE Elsie!

Are you saying ELSIE that Jesus does not have an Eternal body of Flesh and Bone ?

Luke 24 (He appears with a body of flesh and bones, eats food, testifies of His divinity, and promises the Holy Ghost—He ascends into heaven.)

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thought arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit; hath not flesh; and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved‍ Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

( Jesus is still talking about His Heavenly Father)

49 ¶And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

50 ¶And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

OM there is THAT TEMPLE WHICH SOME BELIEVED WAS RENT! (only the curtain)

Are you saying that Jesus does not have a body of Flesh and Bone Elsie?

Zeck 13 (The Jews will gain forgiveness at the Second Coming—They will ask the Lord, What are these wounds in Thine hands?—The remnant, tried and refined, will be His people.

My goodness all these "And it shall come to pass" so many in the OT)

2 ¶And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that‍ I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

4 And it shall come to pass in that day,, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.

6 And one shall say unto him, What are; these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

1 Tim 3 (Great is the mystery of godliness.)

.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

***

*** John 5(Jesus obeys the divine law of witnesses.)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed‍ all judgment‍ unto the Son:

23 That all men‍ should honour‍ the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth‍ not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth‍ on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death‍ unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves‍ shall hear‍ his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Many will scoff and other things, but it is as plain as the noon day sun, for those children who can hear, will hear their Master voice!

Many refuse to pray about this...

2 Nephi 32:

8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.

John 14

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

[restornu]

Philp dear,

Elijah, has now a resurrect Body of flesh and bone.

[roamer_1]

Wow! You must have assumed that Cynical Bear was knowledgable on this subject. I don’t think any of the authors or the lecturer I quoted are preterist. I know for a fact that Ken Gentry doctrine is similar to mine: postmillennial. So is John Otis’ doctrine. Both are Reformed Presbyterian ministers.

That is hardly surprising - The orthodox Reformed are Partial-Preterist in their Eschatology.

Yahoo: John Otis Preterist

Yahoo: Ken Gentry Preterist

Just a quick glance at the subtext within either search will show a clear association with Preterism. Ergo, one is not amiss to assume.

LOL! As to CynicalBear, I think he would readily admit that he and I don't see eye to eye on many things. What he did though, was to provide links much like the links above - That your literature is within the Preterist camp isn't to be doubted. Whether that is because of the partial-preterist leanings of their denom, or that their post-millenialism is embraced by the Preterists is incidental, because the two are hand-in-hand, as I have mentioned before.

I gave Philip Mauro’s name because he was supposedly one of the better biblical researchers. The two books I have read by him are excellent: The Hope of Israel, and The Gospel of the Kingdom. He dispels a lot of the myths, such as the 1000 year earthly reign, and the third temple.

Yahoo: Phillip Mauro Preterist

Dwight Wilson is an Assembly’s of God minister and a dispensationalist who was fed up with all the discrediting false prophecies from those on his side of the fence.

Yahoo: Dwight Wilson Preterist

At the very least, simple searches show the Preterists using the literature you recommend as proofs in themselves. Barring an in depth study, or a treatise by the gentlemen in question denying Preterism (or partial-preterism), again one can assume inclusion within the Preterist sphere.

All I have read and know about these books and authors I have learned since last summer, when I finally came out of “spiritual seclusion,” for lack of a better analogy.

No need to explain - I too spent years intentionally focused upon the Book. I know that seclusion well. That is where I came to question the supercessionist, partial-preterist, ultra orthodox Calvinist religion of my yoot. If I see where you are, it is because I used to be there.

[ThomasMore]

I know knarf was around for The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles). You might remember that one knarf. It literally went on for years. After 65,000 posts they a started breaking it up into smaller chunks. Just for giggles I went back to look at it this morning. Same stuff, different time, some of the same posters: some of them long since banned.

[CynicalBear]

>> As to CynicalBear, I think he would readily admit that he and I don't see eye to eye on many things.<<

ROFL! Say it ain’t so Roamer! Say it ain’t so.

[restornu]

Philp dear,

Elijah, has now a resurrect Body of flesh and bone.