Posted on 01/01/2014 3:47:12 PM PST by SeekAndFind
A 2,000-year-old burial box believed by some to contain the remains of James, the brother of Jesus Christ, is set to go on public display in Israel, after its owner was cleared of forgery.
Oded Golan, the Israeli antiquities collector who owns the limestone burial box, insists that "this is the oldest evidence that mentions the name of Jesus Christ," according to a report in The Guardian.
"There is no doubt that it's ancient, and the probability is that it belonged to the brother of Jesus Christ," he added.
Golan was cleared by the Israeli Supreme Court of having forged the inscription that mentions the name of Jesus after a 10-year investigation, though the Israeli officials who analyzed the evidence have been accused of vandalizing the box.
"It's not in the same condition as before the trial. The inscription was defaced, contaminated. They poured red silicon into the inscription and they let it dry and when they took it out they took the patina. It's ruined," Golan said.
"I have to evaluate the damage, see if it can be restored and if there is the possibility of carrying out further tests on the inscription in the future that will allow us to show its authenticity. The government said the second half of the inscription was forged – the words 'brother of Jesus' – and that's where the major damage has been done."
People will soon be able to see the inscription for themselves for the first time since it was briefly exhibited in Toronto in 2002. Despite the finding by the Israeli judges that the inscription was not forged, the authenticity of the box remains in question.
"Because of the differences in the depth and the clarity and the kerning (spacing) between the first half of the inscription that mentions James son of Joseph, and the second half, I'd be willing to wager that the second half was added in modern times," offered Prof Christopher Rollston of the Albright Institute of Archaeological Research in Jerusalem.
Others, however, such as Professor Gabriel Barkay of Bar-Ilan University, have said that it is an authentic inscription.
"The inscription is written in the Jewish script, it was done with a sharp instrument and I think it was done by the same hand. It is an authentic inscription," Barkay said.
The authenticity of the box could also be a point of controversy for the Roman Catholic Church, which disputes claims that Christ had brothers and sisters.
Golan will also offer expert opinions from the trial as part of evidence in favor of the burial box, though further details about the public display have not yet been available. The James Ossuary Trial Jerusalem blog, maintained by journalist Matthew Kalman, offers updated news on the fallout of the trial and the future of the disputed box.
God did not write the Bible texts in Latin. The Vulgate is merely a translation, and is not inspired. Neither is the Douay nor the KJV. Hopefully, they are reasonably good enough to state correctly the basic articles of The Faith. But their renderings must match the exact sense of the aporaphs (exact copies of the original writings), and that is not always possible in translating alone.
The evidence indicates a much earlier date. I suggest you widen your examination - or be happy with what you have.
Of course! Unless you think that a devout Jew would throw over his religion because of dream...
"If you don't trust, especially, the Apostle-founded churches to have gotten it right about Mary, how can you think they can be trusted for the defining and preserving and transmitting the Canon of Scriptures?"... YOU answered your own question for us...
I'm sorry; your answer is such a non-sequitur I realize I must have expressed my position poorly. The Church of the Apostolic Age wrote the Scriptures: members of the Eleven (Peter, James, John, and Jude); Paul; Mark and Luke; and the anonymous author of the letter to the Hebrews. They --- and their successors, Timothy and Titus, Philemon, Theophilus, Silas, Barnabas and the rest, who received authority by the prayer of the Apostles and the laying on of hands and receiving the Holy Spirit ---preserved them. They selected them. They copied them. They delivered them from church to church. They distributed them across parts of 3 continents. They used them liturgically.
Within (how many? 3, 5, 10 generations? ) a certain period of time, certainly before the 4th century, the consensus of which books were to be used liturgically, became the Canon of Scripture: that's what the Canon is, by definition.
How do we know which books they considered appropriate for use in public worship, and which truths they preserved as having been handed down by the Apostles? Through their worship resources: scrolls, codices, poetry, hymnody, homiletics, liturgy. Their letters, their instructions, their polemics. And to a certain extent, what they painted scratched or inscribed on their church ceilings (where churches were legal) and their catacombs (where they weren't.)
Just to look at one layer of this: the canon itself is not contained in Scripture. No early manuscript had a Table of Contents. Which books were "received" and "accepted" is itself determined by this wider Sacred Tradition, guided by the Holy Spirit: it is not contained in the books themselves.
So this Sacred Tradition --- this handing-on from generation to generation of selecting, preserving, painstaking hand-copying, memorizing, distributing, cantillating, chanting, preaching --- resulting in the accepting of only certain books (not all), of certain leaders (not all) of certain ways of worship and conduct (not all.)
"There is no proof nor even evidence that any of your church fathers got anything at all from the apostles that was not already taught in the scriptures..."
Once again, you would do better to say, "There is no proof or evidence that I know about...". Your knowledge of the cantillation-related hymnody of the early centuries is--- I'll take a wild guess--- somewhat sparse? Your exposure to the development of the Ambrosian, Greek Orthodox, Slavic/Russian Orthodox, Western Assyrian, Chaldean, Armenian, Coptic (Egyptian) and Ge'ez (Ethiopian) chants, perhaps rather sketchy?
I'll go out on a limb and say there's very little you could tell us about the lyrics of St. John of Damascus, or St. Isaac the Hymnodist (also of Damascus)?
I don't put myself forward as an expert on these things. I'm just up here in the peanut gallery, watching what's on the stage and learning snatches of things here and there. But to you--- by your own admission --- it's a vast terra incognita as far as you're concerned.
I''m not saying this to insult you. I have terra incognita all about me, stretching out from my nose to the horizon all around. But at least I know what I don't know. I have known unknowns. You have unknown unknowns, as Donald Rumsfeld used to say. Saying "Good grief, I know only 1% of it and I have heaped up foothills of evidence. He doesn't even suspect the Himalayas of knowledge that's out there.."
Gotta go to be now, I'll be up at 5:00 tomorrow.
I know I'm long-winded. I don't have enough time to write shorter :o).
Of possible interest: Just a tiny bit about chanting as a conduit of Oral Tradition
You're still reading at this point? Thanks. It's an interesting conversation. See you tomorrow.
Happy 8th day of Christmas, Iscool!
"The James ossuary is a 2,000-year old chalk box that was used for containing the bones of the dead. The Aramaic inscription: Ya'akov bar-Yosef akhui diYeshua (English translation: "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus") is cut into one side of the box. The inscription is considered significant because, if genuine, it might provide archeological evidence of Jesus of Nazareth.[1] According to the Los Angeles Times, most scholars hold the last part of the inscription to be a forgery.[2]"
They're trying to enter into the fight when they don't even have a dog...
Sorry. I’m not following you.
Roman Catholic....let's say for arguement sake, the year 33....founded by Christ. The eastern schism...what, about 1054 years later.....
Outside of absolute evidence, I would have a hard time even picturing the apostles going around singing chants...The earliest I am aware of it is watching it in Monte Python's Holy Grail...
The fact that Catholics ultimately adopted this practice does in no way indicate they got if from the apostles...
These chants originated around 400 AD and from what I read, I see that music was pretty much discouraged after the fall of Jerusalem...
Forgetting not that pagan chants had gone on for centuries prior to Jesus Christ and continue on up thru today...
Of course we know that Jewish chants are ancient but who knows when the first Christian chants were written...Certianly not by the apostles...So like I said, and I will repeat...There is no proof nor evidence that your religion received anything from the apostles that wasn't covered in the sciptures...
Luke: Joseph resolved to put Mary away quietly, as she was pregnant before he married her. That was the kind option, the alternative was stoning. Oh, but he had a dream, and turned his back on Jewish law.... yes.
Acts: Peter in a dream is shown unclean creatures, and is told to kill and eat. And sure, his dream tells him to ignore kosher food laws. No doubt that dream convinced him.
Moral of Luke/Acts. If your religion disagrees with your dream, go with the dream, as that must be the higher authority...
Except you have it backward...
Peter wasn’t Bishop of Rome. Someone else was, given that job by Paul.
Council of Nicea was in the East and set the Canon, opened by Constantine- Orthodox Church.
Orthodox Church was the established religion of the Roman empire from 361 (Death of Julian) to 1453, the fall of Constantinople.
So marital sex pollutes hubands and wives?
That’s the doctrine of demons.
Really, Iscool, this is disappointing. I didn't think your would first charge that there's no evidence of early Christian practices, and then, when offered evidence, flick it away like a piece of lint and go with Monty Python.
"I can't even picture" the Apostles praying like Jews? "I can't even picture" is not an argument that does you any credit. But surely you know that.
Learning just a little of this can lead to a great deal of insight., History of religious Jewish music (Link) You'll find this of interest.
“Just to look at one layer of this: the canon itself is not contained in Scripture. No early manuscript had a Table of Contents. Which books were “received” and “accepted” is itself determined by this wider Sacred Tradition, guided by the Holy Spirit: it is not contained in the books themselves. “
MDO,
God inspired, moved, sovereignly acted in history to preserve His Word and to identify it.
Done! And we are thankful. It was all Him working, using the tools He chose, as He always does on History. I would note that 2/3 of the Scriptures were complete before Christ created His assembly. God had been working this way for thousands of years already.
“There is no proof nor even evidence that any of your church fathers got anything at all from the apostles that was not already taught in the scriptures...”
“Once again, you would do better to say, “There is no proof or evidence that I know about...”
...........................
If these things exist and you can prove them using evidence in an unbroken string from Apostle to Church Father, you are assuming.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I would be interested in examining the proof you put forth. I also note I’ve asked you for similar proof in the past and you could not provide any before 200 or 300 ad. Hopefully, you have some good stuff to share this time.
“If these things exist and you can prove them using evidence in an unbroken string from Apostle to Church Father, you are assuming.”
Should read... “If these things exist and you CAN’T prove them using evidence in an unbroken string from Apostle to Church Father, you are assuming.”
Excerpt from: The Didache (The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
What the early Church had to say about abortion
Church History: The Didache [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Catholic Word of the Week: DIDACHE (Teaching of the twelve Apostles), 05-18-10
Early Christians and Abortion
The Time Capsule
The Didache or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles
The Didache - The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations
"God inspired, moved, sovereignly acted in history to preserve His Word and to identify it... It was all Him working, using the tools He chose, as He always does in History."
In the centuries before Christ came in the flesh, He used His chosen people = the Hebrews = the Jews = Israel, assembled around their priests, prophets, kings. In the centuries since, and until He comes again, He is using His Church = the People of God assembled around their bishops.
Salvation,
I am familiar with and have read the Didache.
Obviously, it was rejected as inspired, but was widely dispersed.
So, to follow up on your post.
Please show me in the Didache where Mary remained a virgin for her entire life - and if you cannot find this, please show that Jesus Christ had no brothers or sisters.
Thanks.
Please show me where sola Scriptura is in the Bible and where Luther added and deleted from the Bible, even though it was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
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