Posted on 12/12/2013 12:59:05 PM PST by DouglasKC
How do you know you're saved?
Imagine you arrive at a most important banquet that's hosted by Christ Himself. After all--you're a Christian. Picture coming to His home and walking right up to the door. Perhaps you're a little surprised that the door is closed and you're shut outside. But not to be deterred, you knock and knock. No response, no reaction. So you call out, "Jesus open the door, Lord it's me." Still, no response, no reaction. At long last, you hear Jesus' voice and He says, "I never knew you!" What a devastating and shocking situation in which to find yourself.
(Excerpt) Read more at ucg.org ...
Tagline
Ooops. I’m reading FR comments that this is an Amstrong off-shoot, If so - I retract my Evangelical tag.
(Although at first glance - I see many points I agree with)
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Earlier in the same chapter:
Eph 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Note how "disobedience" is the opposite of Godly behavior. Responding to the spirit of God and obeying that spirit is not works and nothing to be ashamed of.
I am a Calvinist, in this continuing argument.
Definitely NOT Calvinist.
:: I would say that it was his death on the cross that made salvation possible. And when he died this act was finished. Are you making the case that this act automatically granted salvation to everyone regardless of belief, faith or works? ::
Hmmm, I difficult case, I see.
John 3:16-17, “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Do you, thereby, narrow God’s definition of “the world” as staed in BOTH verses above (and, AKA, His creation outside of Time) to your understanding (and/or these charletain*’s understanding)?
* I say that because there are several attempts within the transcript to sell the reader tracts, books and video).
The point of the provocative title and content is to get people to actually look at the relevant scriptures which represent the mind and inspiration of Christ.
The UCG is a known religious cult, and do not have any doctrines of grace like the Reformed. More closely aligned with Mormons, etc.
Why do you work so hard to accomplish that what was already done for you on the Cross?
attrib: Martin Luther
Nothing is being sold. No money is asked for, suggested, or solicited. In fact it's stated several times that everything is free.
29
You find it disturbing for good reason. You also mentioned ‘cults’, though perhaps you were responding to the nature of the message and didn’t know that the UCG is indeed a religious cult. From CARM:
Analysis: The United Church of God is a non-Christian cult that denies the Trinity, the true divinity of Christ, and requires both baptism and obedience to the commandments to be saved. It teaches that there is a “God family” of which we can become members through keeping the Law. Jesus is one of two divine beings, the Father being the other. The Holy Spirit is a force, a power, and is not the 3rd person of the Trinity, and it is received only through the laying on of hands by their church members. It also teaches that their members are obligated to keep the Sabbath and must observe seven festivals. They cannot eat unclean meat. This is a false religious system that teaches a false God, false Christ, and false gospel. Stay away from it.
Other Teachings:
They teach that the wicked, or unsaved, are not alive in hell but are annihilated. Baptism is by immersion. The Bible is inspired and inerrant. They are pre-millennial and maintain that Satan is a fallen, evil angel. Christians are not to go to war and should refuse being drafted.
Quotes
God: God consists of two different beings, Father and Son, in a ‘family.’
“...the one God is a family, presently consisting of God the Father and God the Son, Jesus Christ. And God is in the process of adding to the divine family multitudes of others - eventually all human beings who are willing and who faithfully choose to follow God’s way...the Father and Jesus Christ are both God...The real message in these pronouncements is that there is no other God apart from the true God’that is, outside the God family now consisting of two divine Beings, the Father and the Son. In short, the God family alone is God...the true God means the one God family to which others will yet be added.”3
Holy Spirit: The UCOG denies the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is God’s divine power. “...the Holy Spirit is the very nature, presence and expression of God’s power actively working in His servants...the very essence and life force through which the Father begets human beings as His spiritual children...The Holy Spirit is spoken of in many ways that demonstrate that it is not a divine person.”4
The Holy Spirit is received by the laying on of hands, after being water baptized by immersion.5
Jesus
“Jesus is one of two divine beings”6
Jesus is sinless, the creator of all humanity, who was raised from the dead, (physical resurrection is not explained).
Jesus will return
Law: “The Ten Commandments are the 10 points of God’s law of love. We believe that breaking any one point of the law brings upon a person the penalty of sin. We believe that this fundamental spiritual law reveals the only way to true life and the only possible way of happiness, peace and joy.”7
Man
Man is fallen but can become “partakers of the divine nature.” This means that they can be added to the God Family.
After death, you cease to exist but are resurrected for judgment. “The soul ( nephesh ) is not immortal, because it dies...what happens to the spiritual essence that separates man from animal? Does it continue as a conscious, immortal soul independent of the physical body? Certainly not!”8
“We believe that at the return of Jesus Christ a resurrection to spirit life will take place for all who have been God’s faithful servants.”9
Rest at link: http://carm.org/ucog
I think using tobacco is the only thing that will keep you from being saved.
Obedience (works) is an essential part of faith. You cannot have a living faith without works—obeying God.
They go hand in hand don’t they?
i.e. Works don’t save, but they are proof of salvation. However, there is that dicey little verse that talks of the man who’s works are all burned up, but he himself is saved, as through a fire. So the question is, how many good works is enough? My take: only the Lord knows. But I suspect it’s darned few. And if you are worrying about how many works you are doing, your head is in the wrong place. You’r about to trip over the stone discussed in Romans.
Scripture makes clear that salvation is only available through Christ:
Act_4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Is it your position that the death of Christ automatically guarantees salvation to everyone? A universal automatic salvation? I don't think that was answered.
Are you making the case that this act automatically granted salvation to everyone regardless of belief, faith or works? Or was it potential salvation?
It was potential in that to receive the gift, one has to accept it. But to me, receiving this gift is kinda like receiving the ability to fly a fighter plane. Most people who receive it are gonna run out looking for a plane to fly. If they don’t care, did they really receive it?
Think about the feast in Luke 14:16-24. The first "wave" of guests received the invitation, but didn't care enough to go. That's why the second "wave" went out.
If the case of the parable, the initial invitees are the Jews, but they were not interested in attending. So the invitation went out to the Gentiles.
However, in order to be part of that feast, we must accept the invitation, respond, and attend. There are some actions we must perform in order to partake.
:: Is it your position that the death of Christ automatically guarantees salvation to everyone? ::
Well, yes - THROUGH FAITH. I continue to be perplexed why you leave out Faith (the work of the Holy Spirit).
Isn’t that what God said? Faith in the works and death of Christ (...whoever believes in Him...) provides salvation, the propitiation of sin; “Behold, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world”.
All mankind has salvation...by grace, through Faith.
Again, why do you work so hard to achieve what Christ has already done for you?
I think using tobacco is the only thing that will keep you from being saved.
Are you also a member of the UCG?
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