Posted on 03/30/2013 8:04:20 PM PDT by boatbums
Last Friday night (March 22), March Madness was in its televised glory. And Taylor Swift was singing and strumming at Time Warner Cable Arena.
Despite such competition, Christ Episcopal Church managed to draw 1,100 people.
The attraction: A doctor describing his time in heaven.
Not just any doctor. Sitting on stage, answering questions from the Rev. Chip Edens, the church’s rector, was Dr. Eben Alexander. He’s a Charlotte native who wrote “Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife.” His book is such a mega-seller that he has talked to Oprah – and Universal Pictures won a bidding war to turn it into a (probably 3-D) movie.
Read more here: http://funkonfaith.blogspot.com/2013/03/charlotte-born-doctor-talks-about-time.html#storylink=cpy
(Excerpt) Read more at funkonfaith.blogspot.com ...
In case you didn't know, DMT is a psychoactive chemical produced naturally within the brain that is released while dreaming in small amounts. During death, large amounts are released. Every living thing produces it and it is called "the spirit molecule".
Those who have a clear conscience will experience paradise that feels eternal: “heaven”.
The evil will be tormented for what feels like eternity: “hell”.
However, what goes on beyond our perceivable physical world to make it happen is beyond my pay grade at this late hour...
It should be comforting. I saw something that went on for a couple of weeks before my Grandmother died that was quite insightful. They always tell you that people who are close to death talk about “seeing” people who died years before on the other side.
Well, this was “more” than that. Once she awoke reporting that she had seen my Uncle (he died of cancer in the 80’s when he was 45); BUT she also wanted to know why they had lost “both their boys” as she had been told my Dad would be there as well. My Dad was standing in the room...we all had a little chuckle about Grandma being confused. A couple of months after she died, my Dad became ill & was diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer....he joined his Mother after a 10 week illness.
A couple of days after the first incident, one of her lifelong friends died. The decision was made not to tell her; she would not be able to attend the funeral after all...no use causing upset. A few hours after the friend passed, Grandma said “Say, I just saw “Dorothy”...she told me that everything is wonderful over there...and she is waiting there to greet me when I decide to go.” I guess Dorothy decided that if we weren’t going to tell Grandma...she would do it herself.
The moral of story A., I guess is that if someone who is dying thinks they will see you soon, you should go to the Doctor. Can you just imagine that appt? “My dying Mother was told by someone in Heaven that I would be there soon...might want to do a full work-up!” LOL!
They refuse, boatbums, because should they realize their error they would then “feel” foolish and a whole host of other “feelings”....especially when they realize they’ve in turn drawn others into the deceptions, and oftentimes away from Christ Jesus,..... so it can be emotionally overwhelming to them..... It’s easier to just keep going and falsely “belief” what they imagine they see...and that justify it as so, for in their mind if it wasn’t from God he’d have intervened to stop it.
I will also say that believing in this “stuff” will lead peoeple to seeking “experiencings” over that of faith. I have know people who go this root ...they eventually start questioning Gods Word...then they go so far as denying it...and we know where that path then leads them.
This doctor is not a theologian or a pastor. To expect him to be is missing the whole point.
His point is that he died while he was in the hospital and hooked up to equipment that measured his brain waves. He had an NDE when his brain activity was zero - total zero - and he should know because his life’s work was studying neurosurgery. His brain was completely flatlined and yet he is experiencing this vision or dream or experience or whatever it was.
I’m sure God didn’t choose him for this revelation because He was impressed with his theology. Quite the opposite. God chose him because he was a doctor who understood that if you experience death and can prove that the brain was not at work while this was happening then how can you explain his experience other than being God’s miracle?
Like most new or mostly unchurched believers, this man isn’t fit to be preaching a theological message but he is fit to explain that there is an afterlife and, to many unbelievers, THAT is an important message.
Yes, by all means carefully examine all NDE claims and do not have an uncritical belief in what the man says based on what he says happened to him but do not overlook that he can offer scientific proof that he was experiencing an event while his brain had totally ceased activity and if his brain was not, in any way, participating in his experience then how can this be explained other than the hand of God?
It’s an important discovery and confirms what many of us hope in. Just don’t buy the whole package of theology that comes with it because he probably hasn’t even had time to sort all that out or for the Holy Spirit to impress upon him God’s revelations.
I’m guessing the Apostle Paul didn’t have it all figured out by the time he got to Damascus either. Despite his personal revelation, it probably took years of intense prayer and meditation for Paul to understand the gospel of salvation that he was called to preach. If God allowed time for Paul to understand the theology, I’m willing to allow this doctor to sort it out too. It doesn’t negate the experience he had.
His expertise is certainly valuable in adding to the discussion of what happens to our soul and spirit after death. That something DOES happen is inescapable. Unfortunately, most people don't come back so it is really rare when it happens.
That is a nice theory but incomplete. People report leaving their bodies, watching their doctor operate on them when they should be unconscious, and accurately reporting on not only the goings on in the operating room from a view looking down, but also things in other rooms. That can’t be explained by DMT.
Howard Storm’s experience started out in Hell (he was an Athiest) where he was attacked by evil creatures that he says used to be people and in desperation, after fighting the things tooth and nail, he called out to Christ. This terrified the creatures and they left. Then he met Christ and after that had quite an elaborate and detailed experience. Afterward, because the experience changed him so much (Athiest to Believer) he had marital problems with his still Atheist wife and they ultimately divorced, and he fell away from his still Atheist friends. He eventually became a minister and married again to a devout Christian woman. It is hard to believe that was all caused by a drug trip.
The best book I have read regarding NDE’s is “Evidence of the Afterlife: The Science of Near-Death Experiences.” The authors list 9 lines of evidence that they believe prove consciousness separate from the body.
Great story about your Granny. I bet that comforted her beyond measure...how much better would THAT be than to be on the receiving end of a telegram.
I know with my Grandma, you could tell she was completely somewhere else increasingly for the last couple of weeks. In fact, I think she was annoyed when she would completely awaken & see us standing around. “Oh for Pete’s sake..I’m back HERE again!”
look on youtube for “jesse duplantis visits heaven” — your eyes will open wide with amazement! Not in belief, but at the utter gall of such a guy and that the people believe him...
the book “heaven is for real” is a work of fiction. NDE’s occur, but that one was clearly fiction
You sound like a Muslim when you say stuff like,” it should be taken with a grain of salt and measured by the one, divinely-revealed and authoritative source we have - the Holy Bible.”
Which divinely written and revealed version are you using? The King James version? The bible you are referring to ... is it the collection of 66 books or the complete collected works to date, or the original old testament bible we took from the Jews?
The official parts of the bible weren’t even decided until 367 years after the death of Christ. Attaching mysticism to the bible is narrow minded in my opinion. I think the magic lies in the stories that were recorded, not the manner and details of the collection.
They are the new Pharasies. If you donot accept their understanding of the “word” you are a heretic.
God gave us brains. It’s a shame that we have folks that don’t use them.
“My theory is that it can be explained in our physical world as a DMT-based psychedelic experience”
The problem with your theory is it does not stand up to facts. In the case of the good Dr....he was braindead...no brainwaves at any level. You cannot have the kind of experience your hypothesizing on without brainwave activity.
Second, as one who has experienced NDE I can tell you with certainty it is not hallucination. I have hallucinated with LSD, etc. when younger. There is a huge difference. If you believe that the NDE is a hallucination, then you need to contemplate your entire existence as a hallucination...seriously. It is that real.
I find non Christians have a difficult time with believing that God actually does exist and is alive right now. God does communicate with those who are with him regularly. We do not have to die to speak with God or indeed to hear from Him.
Like a muslim? You can't be serious.As a christian I will check most anything I hear or read against God's word.
Vermont Lt..."They are the new Pharasies. If you donot accept their understanding of the “word” you are a heretic.
"The new Pharasies"? As I understand it their biggest problem was nullifying the word with their traditions.
"God gave us brains. It’s a shame that we have folks that don’t use them."
You sure got that right!
People have reported the exact same experiences when taking DMT. In fact, I personally witnessed some experiments where experienced people could "see" very specific things across space and time. Even things that lie within others minds as memories. I was a complete atheist/realist until I saw that before my eyes.
Unfortunately you will likely never see a published scientific report on it. Why? Even though DMT is a chemical already produced inside your brain and every living creature has it inside them, actually isolating/possessing that chemical is a serious felony.
"He eventually became a minister and married again to a devout Christian woman. It is hard to believe that was all caused by a drug trip."
Your PERCEPTION of reality is entirely dependent on the chemicals that flow through your brain. What we consider reality is essentially a "hallucination" that remains consistent for most of our lives and is unique to each brain. When you slightly alter the brain chemistry, even for a few minutes, it can lead to some of the most profound life realizations. The experience can happen in a dream, NDE, during physical trauma or when taking psychoactive drugs.
I had a childhood friend who was probably the worst of the worst- wife beating alcoholic turned homeless crackhead. One night he 'scored' some psychoactive mushrooms(similar to DMT). Instead of getting doped into oblivion as usual, he said he felt God show him the mistakes he made in his life and how to turn his life around. He now goes to church every week, is an electrician and married a devout woman. There are some studies done where mushrooms are legal that show they can be very effective in treating addiction.
The problem with your theory is it does not stand up to facts. In the case of the good Dr....he was braindead...no brainwaves at any level. You cannot have the kind of experience your hypothesizing on without brainwave activity.
There are very few "facts" when it comes to the brain and dream/spirit world. Perhaps his entire experience occurred before the brain activity shut down? As I stated before, DMT completely alters perception of time. What seems like an entire day's experience "over there" could only require a few minutes of brain activity "here".
"Second,as one who has experienced NDE I can tell you with certainty it is not hallucination. I have hallucinated with LSD,etc. when younger. There is a huge difference. If you believe that the NDE is a hallucination, then you need to contemplate your entire existence as a hallucination...seriously. It is that real."
Read my 3rd paragraph above. Reality/existence in a way is a "hallucination". We accept it because it remains essentially consistent since birth. A filtered, processed interpretation of reality that supposedly entirely stems from your 5 senses. Now, think about when you (or other people) have a dream how absolutely "real" it can feel. That alone proves your mind doesn't need those 5 senses to generate what we call "reality". It can generate a complete "reality" on its own through chemicals and electricity.
The question becomes: how much of reality is from your 5 senses and how much is a "hallucination" entirely generated within your mind. IMO, it is a blend and there is far more out there that we can't "see" at all.
While all psychedelic drugs can alter perception and let you see beyond your baseline interpretation of "reality", the man-made LSD seems to be the least "visionary" and most dangerous one. I personally have never seen or heard of any good results from LSD.
The excesses of the hippies have done untold damage to our perception and understanding of these brain chemicals. Anytime people hear about these natural psychoactive chemicals, they automatically associate them with idiots who abuse them for fun.
Look, I don’t want to get into a “thing” here. But Muslims are always quoting book and verse.
And which Gods word are you using? Aramaic, Grrek, Latin, old English, or Modern English?
The problem is were are too far removed from the original “word” and the process is so politicized to trust.
And that is the end of my side of the argument.
Happy Easter.
Sounds like Remote Viewing, a psychic spy program the US government had for over 20-years. The Scots called it “Second Sight,” and the American Indian used to find game. . .and the Soviets apparently developed their own RV program, too.
Lots of hooey out there, for sure, but some is interesting, such as “Reading the Enemy’s Mind” by Paul H Smith.
Many RV people are devout Christians, though the “father” of RV (Ingo Swann) was basically a “use the force” kind of guy.
www.irva.org
Just sayin’
Anyone who denies the existence of a Hell, is in fact, commiting calumny against Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection.
Why would a loving God send his son into the world to save us from our sins, if there was not a counter force known as Satan and the eternal damnation of those who follow Satan?
Asside from the obvious cases of an instantly and totally dead body (nuked, blown to bits, crushed; where recovery would be impossible), you’re not dead until the blood is dead. Oxygen deprivation causes hallucinations; you’re in dreamland. Drugged, if you will. There is no record of Lazarus (4 days dead) telling of his ‘death experience’.
These stories just encourage non-christians and ‘christian’ people that are ‘serving two masters’ (and not realizing that they are trying to do just that), to go on living a sinful lifestyle, thinking that they are ‘good to go’.
Well then that would also include the above statement, which makes the statement itself a hallucination unique to your brain. In other words, if your hypothesis it true there is no way to know that it is true because Reason itself is hallucination.
I would love to address your other points but in order to do that I have appeal to Reason. If Reason is a hallucination then everything I say everything you say is totally meaningless.
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