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To: HerrBlucher; Wpin
"People report leaving their bodies,watching their doctor operate on them when they should be unconscious,and accurately reporting on not only the goings on in the operating room from a view looking down,but also things in other rooms. That can’t be explained by DMT."

People have reported the exact same experiences when taking DMT. In fact, I personally witnessed some experiments where experienced people could "see" very specific things across space and time. Even things that lie within others minds as memories. I was a complete atheist/realist until I saw that before my eyes.

Unfortunately you will likely never see a published scientific report on it. Why? Even though DMT is a chemical already produced inside your brain and every living creature has it inside them, actually isolating/possessing that chemical is a serious felony.

"He eventually became a minister and married again to a devout Christian woman. It is hard to believe that was all caused by a drug trip."

Your PERCEPTION of reality is entirely dependent on the chemicals that flow through your brain. What we consider reality is essentially a "hallucination" that remains consistent for most of our lives and is unique to each brain. When you slightly alter the brain chemistry, even for a few minutes, it can lead to some of the most profound life realizations. The experience can happen in a dream, NDE, during physical trauma or when taking psychoactive drugs.

I had a childhood friend who was probably the worst of the worst- wife beating alcoholic turned homeless crackhead. One night he 'scored' some psychoactive mushrooms(similar to DMT). Instead of getting doped into oblivion as usual, he said he felt God show him the mistakes he made in his life and how to turn his life around. He now goes to church every week, is an electrician and married a devout woman. There are some studies done where mushrooms are legal that show they can be very effective in treating addiction.

The problem with your theory is it does not stand up to facts. In the case of the good Dr....he was braindead...no brainwaves at any level. You cannot have the kind of experience your hypothesizing on without brainwave activity.

There are very few "facts" when it comes to the brain and dream/spirit world. Perhaps his entire experience occurred before the brain activity shut down? As I stated before, DMT completely alters perception of time. What seems like an entire day's experience "over there" could only require a few minutes of brain activity "here".

"Second,as one who has experienced NDE I can tell you with certainty it is not hallucination. I have hallucinated with LSD,etc. when younger. There is a huge difference. If you believe that the NDE is a hallucination, then you need to contemplate your entire existence as a hallucination...seriously. It is that real."

Read my 3rd paragraph above. Reality/existence in a way is a "hallucination". We accept it because it remains essentially consistent since birth. A filtered, processed interpretation of reality that supposedly entirely stems from your 5 senses. Now, think about when you (or other people) have a dream how absolutely "real" it can feel. That alone proves your mind doesn't need those 5 senses to generate what we call "reality". It can generate a complete "reality" on its own through chemicals and electricity.

The question becomes: how much of reality is from your 5 senses and how much is a "hallucination" entirely generated within your mind. IMO, it is a blend and there is far more out there that we can't "see" at all.

While all psychedelic drugs can alter perception and let you see beyond your baseline interpretation of "reality", the man-made LSD seems to be the least "visionary" and most dangerous one. I personally have never seen or heard of any good results from LSD.

The excesses of the hippies have done untold damage to our perception and understanding of these brain chemicals. Anytime people hear about these natural psychoactive chemicals, they automatically associate them with idiots who abuse them for fun.

35 posted on 03/31/2013 7:02:22 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: varyouga
“In fact, I personally witnessed some experiments where experienced people could “see” very specific things across space and time. “

Sounds like Remote Viewing, a psychic spy program the US government had for over 20-years. The Scots called it “Second Sight,” and the American Indian used to find game. . .and the Soviets apparently developed their own RV program, too.

Lots of hooey out there, for sure, but some is interesting, such as “Reading the Enemy’s Mind” by Paul H Smith.

Many RV people are devout Christians, though the “father” of RV (Ingo Swann) was basically a “use the force” kind of guy.

www.irva.org

Just sayin’

37 posted on 03/31/2013 8:46:46 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: varyouga
What we consider reality is essentially a "hallucination" that remains consistent for most of our lives and is unique to each brain.

Well then that would also include the above statement, which makes the statement itself a hallucination unique to your brain. In other words, if your hypothesis it true there is no way to know that it is true because Reason itself is hallucination.

I would love to address your other points but in order to do that I have appeal to Reason. If Reason is a hallucination then everything I say everything you say is totally meaningless.

40 posted on 03/31/2013 9:16:50 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: varyouga

Dear varyouga,

The problem with your assertions is they require no contemplation. In other words, while you pretend to know where thought comes from and therefore that it can be manipulated...you don’t and you cannot.

The fact that you can put a sentence together at all is evidence of God and His creation. Chemicals...electricity...etc. cannot explain it because they are simply the results of thoughts not the beginning.

I have both hallucinated on psychedlic drugs and had a NDE...they are not the same thing in any sense of the word.

Additionally, if you read about the nuero-surgeons testimony...he was brain dead, there was zero brain wave activity going on while he had his experience.

I know in my own experience I “saw” music while tripping on LSD but that is nothing like the reality of NDE or the Holy Spirit. If you really think what you wrote, you should be contemplating your entire history and existence as being some form of hallucination, because it would be.


48 posted on 04/01/2013 3:38:24 AM PDT by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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