But Pastor Osteen, where is Jesus?

timesunion ^ | 18 Mar 2012 | Delaney McDonough

[Cronos]

Over 12,000 people rushed into a crowded Times Union Center to hear “Pastor” Joel Osteen’s message of feel good, Broadway style contemporary worship and many came out changed according to an article in yesterday’s paper by Paul Grondahl. A star among the Christian world, Osteen claims the nation’s largest congregation in Houston, Texas with over 30,000 members

Aside from being a good looking man with a deep southern accent and a warm welcoming voice that draws many in, what qualifications does this man have to be preaching to stadiums packed full of vulnerable people?

The best selling author and televangelist had only attended Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma for a two year period without receiving a degree. Now something doesn’t seem quite right about this. Why can a man with virtually no higher level training in religious matters or Bible studies waltz onto a stage in hundreds of stadiums and speak on the matter? Why does a man with no qualifications have such a great following? (Osteen receives around seven million viewers world wide through his televised sermons.) I’m not entirely sure whether or not I feel comfortable with someone preaching the word of God, if they don’t know the word of God.

Just from watching a few of his sermons on television and online, I see that Osteen makes no reference to any pages of scripture and speaks only from his memory. I have also noticed from Grondahl’s article that Osteen prefers not to speak of sin, and likes to focus rather on the goodness of God. Now, I’m not trying to rip the man apart. As a Christian myself, I try to see the good in all of God’s creations but I am simply trying to bring this forward in a manner that can hopefully help others recognize and distinguish the difference between a Christian message and a self-help, motivational one.

In an interview with Larry King ( below), Osteen speaks of what he does and what many are calling “Christless Christianity“.

[fella]

” . . . only attended Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma for a two year period without receiving a degree. Now something doesn’t seem quite right about this. Why can a man with virtually no higher level training in religious matters or Bible studies waltz onto a stage in hundreds of stadiums and speak on the matter? “

Why this settles it for me. The guy that started this whole Christian thing had no degree's at all, not even a certificate from a public elementary school. So why do so many people pay any attention to what He had to say? /Sarc

Knowledge like beauty is where you find it. Just look at all those MBA sheepskins out there that have and are driving our economy into the dirt.

[Prospero]

While I'm not overly impressed with super-Pastors and super-fun mega-church congregations I don't like the line of criticism taken here, using the world's standards and a public arena to "rebuke" someone.

I don't recall the scholarly qualifications of any of the Apostles, for that matter, except for Paul.

[Iscool]

There is no catalyst in his message for one to feel and know how loathsome our behavior is in Gods eyes. How close we are to eternal damnation. The “positive reassurance” and “prosperity” gospel are poor substitutes for the real substance. The command was to “Feed my sheep”. The sheep are underfed and malnourished on the Osteen diet.

As I see it, Joel preaches a Gospel message but it is not balanced teaching one would get from other types of Protestant churches...But then Joel will tell you that...

He's a good preacher but if you want balance, you have to go somewhere else...I believe Joel encourages people to read their bibles...

[stars & stripes forever]

It is also a gift that can be destroyed through a lot of what passes for Seminary or religious education nowadays.

Pastors should read the Scriptures with an open mind and not rely on their 'religious training.' They would be surprised what the Bible actually says.

[melsec]

I understand and agree with what you say. I think the Bible should be read in 4 ways

1) As a plain and simple reading of any text with an open heart and mind.
2) Comparatively i.e comparing Old Test to New or Book to Book so that you come to a reasonable understanding of the whole sweep of Scripture.
3) An informed, but not prejudiced, reading with some understanding of what others have gleaned from the Scriptures.
4) In prayer to understand what God might be saying to you through them.

Blessings

Mel

[Salvation]

The posted daily from Osteen is really not a devotional, for even there — where is Jesus, the Bible, morality??

And I could go on and on.

I don’t think the (daily) thread should be protected since it is not devotional.

[Salvation]

Are you demeaning Jesus Christ who educated the apostles?

Sure they may not have gotten it the first time around, but they eventually did grasp his message.

I sincerely hope you were not demeaning Jesus or the apostles.

[Colonel_Flagg]

Jesus didn’t go screaming and yelling at people either. His message was one of love and faith.

Remember, Jesus cleared the Temple for a good reason. And He wasn't happy when He did so.

Yes, His message was one of love and faith. But it was also about holiness, God's hatred of all sin and finding the one true path to Him. Osteen tells half the Gospel -- at best.

[stars & stripes forever]

Well said.

[astratt7]

Look, the man does not even have the convictions of his so called beliefs. On Larry King, he could not, or would not say that Jesus is the only way! I question him being truly Born Again.

[cuban leaf]

—Are you demeaning Jesus Christ who educated the apostles?

Sure they may not have gotten it the first time around, but they eventually did grasp his message.

I sincerely hope you were not demeaning Jesus or the apostles.—

I was saying the exact opposite. They did not need credentials to preach the gospel, nor do I. Nor do any of the saints.

IOW, I don’t care what education a preacher has. I’m concerned with WHAT they preach, which is why I don’t care for Joel’s message. His lack of education is a red herring to me. The real problem is what he says, not where or how much he was trained.

[aruanan]

I understand and agree with what you say. I think the Bible should be read in 4 ways
1) As a plain and simple reading of any text with an open heart and mind.
2) Comparatively i.e comparing Old Test to New or Book to Book so that you come to a reasonable understanding of the whole sweep of Scripture.
3) An informed, but not prejudiced, reading with some understanding of what others have gleaned from the Scriptures.
4) In prayer to understand what God might be saying to you through them.

You forgot number 5: In the context of the history and society and religion and languages in which the books were written so that people now won't read into them something that doesn't exist.

[NELSON111]

....and tells you “you’re going to Hell if you don’t do what I say”.
He preaches on the love of God and how to live a Godly life. Jesus didn’t go screaming and yelling at people either.

Preachers (of which I am one) do not just preach from the Gospels. The Gospel message, which Joel is supposed to preach, comes from the ENTIRE scripture. Jesus spoke MORE on Hell than he did Heaven…and He did His fair share of yelling. And it’s NOT “you’re going to HELL if you don’t do what I say.” REALLY? No. It’s: YOU ARE GOING TO HELL IF YOU REJECT THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.

Yes…God is a God of love…but Exodus 20:5,6 says, “For I Jehovah your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation of those that hate me and showing mercy to thousands of those that love Me and keep My commandments. “

So tell me…when was the last time you heard any sermon from Joel that focused verse 5…or was heavy on verse 6b? Probably not too much. You can’t just have “the God of Love” without having “the Jealous God” and “the God of Mercy to those who OBEY me.” It doesn’t work that way…and anyone who preaches one facet of God and not the others is a liar.

But you know why people follow such? It’s a fulfillment of prophecy: 2 Timothy 4:3: “ For a time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but will heap up teachers to themselves according to their own lusts, tickling the ear.”

Paul said it clearly. People will want preachers who scratch their ears like a dog and make them feel good…not those that preach sound doctrine…because sound doctrine makes us uncomfortable.

[Cronos]

he says he is Born Again, like everyone else does....

[BipolarBob]

I don't like the line of criticism taken here, using the world's standards and a public arena to "rebuke" someone.

Your dislike is noted. I didn't use the "world's standards" and neither did some of the others. My problem is not with Joels lack of scholarly degree but his unbalanced message. It is a soft message. Very palatable. But lacking. There is a balance between a hell fire and brimstone sermon (which is necessary from time to time) and Osteens let's all just be happy and optimistic sermon. The core message should be how important Christ is to solve our everyday crises and our eternal salvation.

[melsec]

Yes, sorry, the who, why, when, where and to whom - I must admit the languages side has always been a problem for me as I haven’t learnt Greek etc.

Mel

[Josh Painter]

In a time when Christianity itself is under heavy attack from secularists and radical Islamists, why do so-called Christians attack each other?

I’m a Catholic, and while Osteen isn’t my cup of tea, his is a cup of kindness. If he saves just one sinner, there is rejoicing in heaven.

More power to him.

[Drumbo]

In a time when Christianity itself is under heavy attack from secularists and radical Islamists, why do so-called Christians attack each other?

I’m a Catholic, and while Osteen isn’t my cup of tea, his is a cup of kindness. If he saves just one sinner, there is rejoicing in heaven.

More power to him.

I think the operative word in your post is power. Power and money go hand and hand and JO has plently of both. I've never had to pay admission to see an evangelist, but JO routinely charges for his "performances". The gospels tell us to test the spirits, that they are from God. They warn us of false prophets and those who teach another Jesus. The spirit of AntiChrist is powerful enough to fool "even the elect".

I see JO threads daily on FR but can't comment due to the rules of the religous forum. I don't subscribe to prosperity gospel, yet I am not JO's judge. But, I will not enrich him further of lend him power to preach a watered down, feel-good religion. I could be wrong, but I'm secure in my own salvation and that's all that matters in my life. God won't judge me for not following JO but, imho, those who do follow him should be very careful and wayward. Jesus didn't preach a gospel based on rewards in this life, but in the next.

[melsec]

I must say though in the past few decades the areas of history, language and context has seen a lot of abuse in liberal protestant churches. It seems that if ‘”New Scholarship” believes that history, language or context is different from the traditionally held view then the meaning of the Scripture can be changed. This has been true on the issue of homosexuality , on biblical marriage, women ministers etc. There has also been a strong movement to place doubt on the authorship of some books. All ending in confusion for those who have trusted others to tell them what the Scriptures say and don't read the Bible for themselves.

Mel

[Josh Painter]

"I am not JO's judge..." So you say while judging him.