Classical Protestant Resurgence: how the PCA got its mojo back

The Aquila Report ^ | 24 May 2010 | Chris Hutchinson

[Cronos]

And that is exactly what you guys already do...

or do you consider Phelps to be your idea of a "Calvinist Lesbian priestess"?

[Cronos]

And, what about the quotes from your own near and dear followers of Calvin

Dr. Eckleburg: "That's Christianity. That's Calvinism"

Gamecock:
"This goes to what the Reformers taught; that is the "enthusiasts" or what we call today Pentecostals, are really no different from the Roman Catholics

Dr. Eckleburg: "The liberal church teaching of free will has infected the Lutherans, too, in contradiction to what Martin Luther taught from Scripture"

[Cronos]

>>“Well, I heard that the PCA tore down 2.5 million square miles of Brazilian rain forest because they were afraid someone might try to build a cross.” <<

Yeah, but who would write such a terrible thing? :^D

well we've heard worse made-up stories from the followers of Calvin.

[Cronos]

Let us put this in simple English for you:

1. Followers of Calvin do not believe in the God of Christianity. With their idea of limited atonement, they believe in a Robot-Maker in the sky, not God.

2. Followers of Calvin disregard scripture such as John 4:42,1 Timothy 4:10 and 1 John 2:2

3. Followers of Calvin believe in 0 free-will and in Total Depravity, which means they believe in a Robot God that creates some robots evil and creates others "good" and programs the evil to do evil and the good to do good.

4. Hence the followers of Calvin preach that Calvin's robot-maker is the root of evil as he pre-programmed all the robots (men) to do either good or evil.

5. The Robots cannot, according to the followers of Calvin, change anything as it is their programming. This is quite in contrast to Ezekiel 33:12-16
   

   [12] Thou therefore, O son of man, say to the children of thy people: The justice of the just shall not deliver him, in what day soever he shall sin: and the wickedness of the wicked shall not hurt him, in what day soever he shall turn from his wickedness: and the just shall not be able to live in his justice, in what day soever he shall sin.

   [13] Yea, if I shall say to the just that he shall surely live, and he, trusting in his justice, commit iniquity: all his justices shall be forgotten, and in his iniquity, which he hath committed, in the same shall he die.

   [14] And if I shall say to the wicked: Thou shalt surely die: and he do penance for his sin, and do judgment and justice,

   [15] And if that wicked man restore the pledge, and render what he had robbed, and walk in the commandments of life, and do no unjust thing: he shall surely live, and shall not die.

   [16] None of his sins, which he hath committed, shall be imputed to him: he hath done judgment and justice, he shall surely live.

6. Hence the followers of Calvin believe in their great robot-maker in the sky, they do not believe in the Christian God of Love who came to atone for the sins of ALL men. The Calvinists deny the fact that the grace provided by Christ's sacrifice was sufficient to save all men
   

   1 Timothy 2:4

   For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, [4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

7. Net-net, the followers of Calvin believe in a god like a robot-maker who pre-programs some to do good, some to do evil and pre-marks them willfully to burn in hell forever or not. This is not the Christian God

[Cronos]

In contrast to the evil robot-maker deity of the followers of Calvin, there is the Christian God.

Lutherans, Anglicans, Pentecostals, CAtholics, Mennonites, Orthodox, Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians, Assyrians believe in this Christian God in contrast to the followers of Calvin and their robot-maker deity.

God created Adam and Eve in His own image, perfect. God did not stop at Adam and eve and than create everyone else differently or God can be moved from perfection.Thus God would lack perfection from eternity

Man may be born with the Original stain, but men by free will become evil since God from created all things good,thus putting an end to Calvin's theory of God predestining people to hell and man having no free will.

Calvinism 101: God is the author of sin. Man is not responsible for his actions.

Followers of Calvin have made God into a monster who DECIDES on creating evil -- they do this when they state that God has decided it is “better to bring good out of evil, than not to permit any evil to exist.

Yet the followers of Calvin neglect to ask themselves How does God decide anyway since He knows the outcome?Is He NOT sure in the first place and needs to make a decision because He does not understand Himself ,thus making Him not ALL knowing?

If the Calvinist robot-maker god created evil than evil is part of the essence of Calvinism's god.

Thus,by this belief the followers of Calvin believe that Christ has evil in Him as part of His essence since the second person of the Trinity is God incarnate.

[HossB86]

Let us put this in simple English for you:

Us? Who is us? Are you a royal 'we', or are you getting this from the Magicsterium*?

Again, you know nothing. Every post you make proves it, so please -- do continue.

GC, MM, BB -- I'm still hearing something, but can't quite make it out....

Hoss

[Natural Law]

"Oh, I can corroborate it for you"

With a link to one of your opinion pieces? Hubris is insufficient to describe that. Since few believe you in the first place what are the odds that any will believe you as your own reference? Get real!

That kind of nonsense might win atta-boys at an OPC church social but in the real world it is laughable.

[Cronos]

and, it’s no wonder that the atheists here see the Calvin robot-maker deity as an abomination and reject it

[Natural Law]

"Us? Who is us? Are you a royal 'we', or are you getting this from the Magicsterium*? "

Does you church not have a heuristic teaching authority or do you just gaze into a mirror?

[Cronos]

Actually the "us" is me and dangus, both non-Calvinists, but we can also extend the "us" to all Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Pentecostals, Orthodox, Copts, Assyrians, Armenians, Ethiopians, Syriacs, etc. who reject the Calvinist robot-maker deity.

To make things easy for you to read, here are the details one more time since I see you missed reading them the first time around:

Putting this in simple English for you:

1. Followers of Calvin do not believe in the God of Christianity. With their idea of limited atonement, they believe in a Robot-Maker in the sky, not God.

2. Followers of Calvin disregard scripture such as John 4:42,1 Timothy 4:10 and 1 John 2:2

3. Followers of Calvin believe in 0 free-will and in Total Depravity, which means they believe in a Robot God that creates some robots evil and creates others "good" and programs the evil to do evil and the good to do good.

4. Hence the followers of Calvin preach that Calvin's robot-maker is the root of evil as he pre-programmed all the robots (men) to do either good or evil.

5. The Robots cannot, according to the followers of Calvin, change anything as it is their programming. This is quite in contrast to Ezekiel 33:12-16
   

   [12] Thou therefore, O son of man, say to the children of thy people: The justice of the just shall not deliver him, in what day soever he shall sin: and the wickedness of the wicked shall not hurt him, in what day soever he shall turn from his wickedness: and the just shall not be able to live in his justice, in what day soever he shall sin.

   [13] Yea, if I shall say to the just that he shall surely live, and he, trusting in his justice, commit iniquity: all his justices shall be forgotten, and in his iniquity, which he hath committed, in the same shall he die.

   [14] And if I shall say to the wicked: Thou shalt surely die: and he do penance for his sin, and do judgment and justice,

   [15] And if that wicked man restore the pledge, and render what he had robbed, and walk in the commandments of life, and do no unjust thing: he shall surely live, and shall not die.

   [16] None of his sins, which he hath committed, shall be imputed to him: he hath done judgment and justice, he shall surely live.

6. Hence the followers of Calvin believe in their great robot-maker in the sky, they do not believe in the Christian God of Love who came to atone for the sins of ALL men. The Calvinists deny the fact that the grace provided by Christ's sacrifice was sufficient to save all men
   

   1 Timothy 2:4

   For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, [4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

7. Net-net, the followers of Calvin believe in a god like a robot-maker who pre-programs some to do good, some to do evil and pre-marks them willfully to burn in hell forever or not. This is not the Christian God

In contrast to the evil robot-maker deity of the followers of Calvin, there is the Christian God.

Lutherans, Anglicans, Pentecostals, CAtholics, Mennonites, Orthodox, Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians, Assyrians believe in this Christian God in contrast to the followers of Calvin and their robot-maker deity.

God created Adam and Eve in His own image, perfect. God did not stop at Adam and eve and than create everyone else differently or God can be moved from perfection.Thus God would lack perfection from eternity

Man may be born with the Original stain, but men by free will become evil since God from created all things good,thus putting an end to Calvin's theory of God predestining people to hell and man having no free will.

Calvinism 101: God is the author of sin. Man is not responsible for his actions.

Followers of Calvin have made God into a monster who DECIDES on creating evil -- they do this when they state that God has decided it is “better to bring good out of evil, than not to permit any evil to exist.

Yet the followers of Calvin neglect to ask themselves How does God decide anyway since He knows the outcome?Is He NOT sure in the first place and needs to make a decision because He does not understand Himself ,thus making Him not ALL knowing?

If the Calvinist robot-maker god created evil than evil is part of the essence of Calvinism's god.

Thus,by this belief the followers of Calvin believe that Christ has evil in Him as part of His essence since the second person of the Trinity is God incarnate.

[Augustinian monk]

or do you consider Phelps to be your idea of a “Calvinist Lesbian priestess”?

Sort of- Like in he is a deranged nut job. Not a valid source.

[Cronos]

Hoss -- do you get the burning in the bosom to help you decipher scripture?

then tell me

1. does your individual interpretation say one should believe in something as basic as Jesus was always God (Trinitarian position) or that Jesus Christ was man made God (Oneness PENTECOSTAL Protestant position) or the Angel Michael (Seventh Day Adventist Ellen G White teaching)
2. does your individual interpretation say that there is the REAL Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (Lutheran, some Anglicans, maybe even Methodists), or is it just a symbol (Calvinists)
3. does your individual interpretation say that one MUST talk in tongues (Oneness Pentecostal) to display faith or not?
4. does your individual interpretation say that there should be an episcopate (Lutheran, Anglican) or not (Presbyterians)?
5. does your individual interpretation say that apostolic succession is important (Anglican) or not (others)?
7. does your individual interpretation say that Baptism is for infants and sufficient (Presbyterian etc.) or not (Baptists)?
8. does your individual interpretation say that God pre-damns people to hell (Calvinism) or not (others)?
9. does your individual interpretation say that vestements are ok (or in the silly words of one poster allowing men in dresses and silly hats) (Anglicans, Lutherans, some Methodists, Presbyterians, even Baptists and Pentecostals) or not?
10. does your individual interpretation say that Jesus came only for the salvation of a few (Calvinists) or he was Savior of the world (everyone else)?
11. does your individual interpretation agree or disagree with soul sleep? (Calvin: "As long as (the soul) is in the body it exerts its own powers; but when it quits this prison-house it returns to God, whose presence, it meanwhile enjoys while it rests in the hope of a blessed Resurrection. This rest is its paradise. On the other hand, the spirit of the reprobate, while it waits for the dreadful judgment, is tortured by that anticipation. . .", Psychopannychia,
12. does your individual interpretation agree or disagree with worshipping on a Sunday (Presbyterians, Pentecostals etc.) or not (Seventh Day Adventists)
13. does your individual interpretation agree with the Adventists that one should follow kosher laws or not?
14. does your individual interpretation believe that we still have spiritual gifts like prophecy amongst us (Pentecostals) or not (Presbyterians)
15. does your individual interpretation agree with being "slain in the spirit" (Pentecostalism) or not (Presbyterianism, Lutheranism etc)
16. does your individual interpretation say that Regeneration comes through Baptism (Lutheranism) or not (Baptists)
17. does your individual interpretation say that grace can be resisted (Pentecostalism, Lutheranism, Methodism) or not (Calvinism)
18. does your individual interpretation say that baptism is three-fold (Mennonites) or not?
19. does your individual interpretation say that there is no free will (Calvinism) or that man has free will (Mennonites)
20. does your individual interpretation say that it is faith + works (Mennonites: Menno Simons told the followers of Luther and Calvin: “If you wish to be saved, you must walk in the way of the Lord, hear His Word, and obey it. For nothing avails in heaven nor on earth unto salvation, … not even Christ with His grace, merit, blood, and death, if we are not born of God, … if we do not believe His Word sincerely, and if we do not walk in the light and do right. As John says: …>If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie.’” (Complete Writings of Menno Simons, p. 208)) or not?
21. does your individual interpretation say that there is imputed righteousness (Calvinism) or not (Mennonites)

[aruanan]

Classical Protestant Resurgence: how the PCA got its mojo back

Remember that Calvin et al surfed the wave that was Luther. That Calvinist churches should now try to lay claim to the reformation and to protestantism, much less something "classical protestant," is anachronistic.

[Cronos]

Ok, I’ll take your word for it, I’m removing his quote and won’t be using it again. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

[aruanan]

A church that is faithful to the Gospel is growing, and you don’t care?

But it's a mistake to assume that a church that is growing is a church that is faithful to the Gospel.

[Cronos]

Aruanan:

Remember that Calvin et al surfed the wave that was Luther. That Calvinist churches should now try to lay claim to the reformation and to protestantism, much less something "classical protestant," is anachronistic

well put. it is sad that nowadays the followers of Calvin try to say that they alone are Protestants.

Gamecock had said about Pentecostals that
"This goes to what the Reformers taught; that is the "enthusiasts" or what we call today Pentecostals, are really no different from the Roman Catholics

====>The followers of Calvin consider the Christian Protestants who do not follow Calvin (like Lutherans, Pentecostals, Anglicans, Methodists, etc.) to not be true Protestants.

In fact the OPC says this about those who deny the non-scriptural double-predestination, God pre-damns people idea of the followers of Calvin. Hence they condemn followers of Christ like Methodists/Pentecostals etc. here is a quote from their site

Arminianism is indeed a heresy,....

The Bible teaches that Christ did his atoning work on behalf of his elect people, and no others.....

Since the teachings of Arminianism are contrary to Scripture, they are manifestly false. They are serious perversions of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Are Arminian preachers heretics? In a sense, yes,

Is Arminianism a damnable heresy? Yes.

Some moreOPC attacks. This is from the OPC Q&A site

It will be noted that the Confession sharply contradicts the view popularized today by the neo-Pentecostal movement.

In essence this view would have us believe that we can have the same charismatic gifts that we read about in the age of the Apostles - such as prophecy, speaking in tongues, and healing - today.

This is a very serious error. In essence it is a result of a failure to grasp the Biblical teaching concerning the history of salvation.

Never again will there be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit such as took place on the day of Pentecost.

The sending of the Holy Spirit is just as much an unrepeatable event as the birth of Christ was.

This states clearly that the OPC wishes to believe that the sending of the Holy Spirit is UNREPEATABLE

And According to the OPC OrthoPresbyterianC: "Christians should not celebrate the Seder or other Jewish festivals. "

[metmom]

Sounds like harping to me.

And it will turn into weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth someday.

[Cronos]

Gamecock: A church that is faithful to the Gospel is growing, and you don’t care?

Aruanan: But it's a mistake to assume that a church that is growing is a church that is faithful to the Gospel.

Quite right -- in fact it seems that reported a 4.37 percent gain in membership, with 1,162,686 members total. Seventh-Day Adventist Church, which didn't make the Top 25 list for at least the past two years, squeezed in the list this year in the 24th spot. The denomination – which observes the Sabbath on Saturdays instead of Sundays – now has 1,043,606 members, up 4.31 percent

What do you know -- two groups that the followers of Calvin too say are "not faithful to the Gospel" are growing too -- at a faster pace than the PCA. And both of them are thrice as large as the PCA and growing faster.... hmm..... perhaps Gamecock, you'll be moving there soon?

[Cronos]

Gamecock: A church that is faithful to the Gospel is growing, and you don’t care?

Aruanan: But it's a mistake to assume that a church that is growing is a church that is faithful to the Gospel.

Quite right -- in fact it seems that reported a 4.37 percent gain in membership, with 1,162,686 members total. Seventh-Day Adventist Church, which didn't make the Top 25 list for at least the past two years, squeezed in the list this year in the 24th spot. The denomination – which observes the Sabbath on Saturdays instead of Sundays – now has 1,043,606 members, up 4.31 percent

What do you know -- two groups that the followers of Calvin too say are "not faithful to the Gospel" are growing too -- at a faster pace than the PCA. And both of them are thrice as large as the PCA and growing faster.... hmm.....

[Cronos]

Actually the wailing and gnashing will be for folks who deny that Jesus Christ is God. This will be for all the wicked folks, whether rural or met ropolitan.

To deny Christ's divinity is a serious error.

Metmom -- would you like some scriptural proof that Jesus Christ is God?