Difficult Questions for Mormons

The Interactive Bible ^

[delacoert]

1. Why did the angel take Nephi Plates back to heaven? Do they not belong with man? Would not their existence prove once for all that Mormonism is truth? God allowed the Jews to carry the 10 commandments for several centuries in their original physical form, written by the finger of God Himself!
2. "Will you, as a Mormon, please read the Bible cover to cover and ask God to reveal to you that it contains all of God's message to man and that parts are not lost or altered and that the Book of Mormon is false?"
3. If the original 1830 Book of Mormon was inspired than why were there so many errors and changes and additions and deletions, when compared to current editions?
4. How can we be assured that the translation of the B of M into French or any other language is correct? Only the English translation is claimed to be inspired!
5. How do you account for the stunning parallels in both content and order between the B of M and the View of the Hebrews, by Ethan Smith? Published in 1823 (7 years before the B of M) less than 100 miles from the Joseph Smith's parents home.
6. Mormon Article of Faith #8: "We Believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God." Why do you only add the phrase, "as far as it is translated correctly" to describe the Bible and not after the book of Mormon when in fact there are far more translating errors in the Book of Mormon than the Bible?
7. If the Book of Mormon is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? Examples are: 1 Nephi 11:21; 19:20; 20:1 and Alma 29:4. Compare these with the original Book of Mormon. (Gerald and Sandra Tanner have counted 3913 changes in the book of Mormon, excluding punctuation changes.)
8. How did Joseph Smith carry home the golden plates of the Book of Mormon, and how did the witnesses lift them so easily? (They weighed about 230 lbs. Gold, with a density of 19.3 weighs 1204.7 lbs. per cubic foot. The plates were 7" x 8" by about 6". See Articles of Faith, by Talmage, page 262, 34^th ed.)
9. If Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God? (Doc. & Cov. 132:17,37)
10. Why do Mormons emphasize part of the Word of Wisdom and ignore the part forbidding the eating of meat except in winter, cold or famine? (Doc. & Cov. 89:12,13).
11. When Christ died, did darkness cover the land for three days or for three hours? (Luke 23:44 and 3 Nephi 8:19, 23).
12. Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to Heaven? (The Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, pages 263-264. See repreint in Mormonism --Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, page 4.)
13. Joseph Smith prepared fourteen Articles of Faith. Why has the original No. 11 been omitted? (Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 2, three pages after page 160, among the photos.)
14. Why did the Nauvoo House not stand forever and ever? (Doc. & Cov. 124:56-60).
15. How can a man who is not a descendant of Aaron hold the Aaronic Priesthood? (Numbers 16:40; Heb. 7:13,14).
16. Since Mormonism teaches that only God the Father had a physical body at the time Adam was created, why did God say, "Let us make man in OUR image"? Why didn't He say, "Let us make man in MY image?" (Gen. 1:26).
17. If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin? (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50).
18. How did Nephi with a few men on a new continent build a temple like Solomon's while Solomon needed 163,300 workmen and seven years to build his temple? (1 Kings 5:13-18 and 2 Nephi 5:15-17).
19. Why was Joseph Smith still preaching against polygamy in October 1843 after he got his revelation in July 1843 commanding the practice of polygamy? (Doc. & Cov. 132; and History of the Church Vol. 6, page 46, or Teachings of the Prophet, page 324).
20. God rejected the fig leaf aprons which Adam and Eve made (Gen. 3:21). Why do Mormons memorialize the fall by using fig leaf aprons in the secret temple ceremonies?
21. How do you explain the fact that 2 Nephi 16:2 is copied from an older version of the KJV of the Bible in Isa 6:2? This is proven because this older KJV (the mistake is corrected in current versions) made a rare gramatical error by using the incorrect plural form of "seraphims" rather than "seraphim".

[Godzilla]

But my question still stands — why does it matter? If the god of the universe tells someone by the spirit of truth what is true, why would that person care if modern archeologists found artifacts?

Then what ever 'god' this may be has his 'truth' wrong. To tell a story that never happened is fiction. The bom and joseph smith made extraordinary claims about the events here in the americas. Yet it lies about the presence of horses, elephants, chariots, advanced metallurgy, old world crops, silk, glass, among others that have been shown not to have been in existence anywhere in the new world during the bom period (500bc-400 ad). So is boils right down to is this 'god' telling the truth. Throw in the highly questionable 'translation' method, the abundance of parallels and other literary sources smith could have drawn upon to fabricate this story - the credibility becomes unsustainable at best.

And if it does matter somehow, I’m fairly certain they just uncovered a new viking site in the middle of Old Town Stockholm.

nando, nando, nando. Dude, you need to at least be in the ball park when you make these comparisons. Was there ever any doubt that vikings inhabited Sweden in the past? Incase you are slow of google, the answer is no, a lot is known about the vikings from all the STUFF they left behind.

In the sorry story of the bom - there is no shred of evidence, archaeological, sociological, paleontological, metallurgical, zoological, linguistically, genetically - you name it. Given the bom claim of a vast civilization in the millions upon millions from sea to sea, there should be some uncontrovertibly artifact or evidence.

Finally - the wore out absence of evidence . . . argument fails because there is an abundance of evidence that anything BUT a bom culture inhabited the Americas during the bom period.

[MHGinTN]

Now now, those who want to believe the fairy tales of Joseph Smith don’t need evidence to substantiate what they already know is ficiton. The god of Mormonism was oncea man and had to gain the position of Mormon god, appointed by a council of gods. People that believe such stuff don’t expect there to be evidence of such fantasies. Polytheists can have poly universes, which in their fantasies overlap and separate, leaving behind just the imagined B of M brought forth by a peepstone sexual predator of married women con artist. People who choose to believe such stuff need no rational evidence of the fantasies and we should not expect such for fantasies. Would you expect evidence for the Lord of the Rings fantasies?

[Elsie]

If the god of the universe tells someone by the spirit of truth what is true, why would that person care if modern archeologists found artifacts?

An identical question:

If the god of this world tells someone by the Father of lies something is true and it isn't, why wouldn't another person care if they lose their soul or not?

[Godzilla]

Would you expect evidence for the Lord of the Rings fantasies?

There's more evidence for the LOTR than the bom.

[Elsie]

How do you like the ark of the covenant?

Is that supposed to TRUMP all the things that HAVE been uncovered?

After all; you just typed this:

So the argument that something isn’t found today is hardly conclusive as to somethings possible existence.

[MHGinTN]

Oh come on now, the mind that makes the fallacy of the undistributed middle so necessary to their religious beliefs ins't going to comprehend your objection. You know that ... you're just askin' for it, dude.

[Utah Binger]

In case you need a translation please call on me. The map is of all the spots Vikings were found in Scandinavia and their travels in the region. How do I know? I'm a proud Viking my friend! BTW, in Denmark we always turn the lights off when not in the room. Can't have "Dim Bulbs".

Vikings in Scandinavia

[Godzilla]

[Utah Binger]

[Tennessee Nana]

By the by, the urim and thummim were part of old testament rituals
___________________________________________

Welcome to FRee Republic, n00bie...

Kid, I’ve read your posts up to now...

It appears you came in swinging ...

Kill many windmills ???

Now since you took the time to mention the Urim and Thummim, lets look at why the ancient Hebrews used them...

1. Urim and Thummim... What they were...

Urim is mentioned in the Christian Bible in the Old Testament: Exodus 28:30, Leviticus 8:8, Numbers 27:21, Deuteronomy 33:8, 1 Samuel 28:6, Ezra 2:63, Nehemiah 7:65

There is no mention of Urim in the New Testament...

in the Hebrew...Uwriym means lights...they were the oracular brilliancy of the figures in the high priest’s breastplate..

from the root words owr and uwr...

owr...to be or to cause to make luminous (lit. and metaph.) break of day, glorious, kindle(be, en-, give, show) light (-en, -ened, set on fire, shine.)

uwr..flame, hence (in the plur) the East (as being the region of the light) fire, light.

Thummim is also mentioned only in the Old Testament, in some of the same scriptures: Exodus 28:30, Leviticus 8:8, Deuteronomy 33:8, Ezra 2:63, Nehemiah 7:65

Thummim in the Hebrew...Tummiym...perfections ie one of the epithets of the objects in the high priest’s breastplate as an emblem of complete truth - Thummim

From tom, tummah, ta’alummah, tamam and alam...

tom...completeness, fig. prosperity, usually innocence- full, intergrity, perfect, (-ion) simpicity, upright, (-ly, -ness) at a venture.

tummah (fem of tom) innocence, integrity

ta’alummah...a secret - thing that is hid, a secret.

tamam ...to complete, in a good or bad sense, accomplish, cease, be clean, consume, have done, be (make) perfecty, be spent, be (show self) upright, whole.

alam...to veil from sight, ie to conceal (lit or fig.) any ways, blind, dissembler, hide (self) secret (thing)

In the Septuagintor has many translations of which phos (light) is the most frequent. The noun ur means “shine”, light giving” (Vines Complete Expository dictionary, P136)

And guess what ??? That same word phos is used in the Greek to describe the LORD Jesus Christ in John

to shine or make manifest...espec by rays, luminousness, fire, light

and the Life was the LIGHT of man John 1:4

that was the true LIGHT John 1:9

Oh WOW doya know what that means ???

Well never you mind...

Nana is here to tell ya...

The LORD Jesus Christ is the Urim and the Thummim..

Now ya know who was on the breastplate of the high priest...

Now ya know just who was guiding the Hebrews...

Oh and besides that the LORD Jesus Christ was also that there Rock that went before them, the cloud by day, the pillar of fire etc.....

Jesus said to nando9 “I AM the Way, the TRUTH and the Life, John 14:6

Exciting aint it ???

Well on the high priest’s (Aaron) breastplate were the Urim and the Thummim (the LIGHT and the PERFECTION)

Insert the Urim and Thummim into the sacred chestpiece so they will be carried over Aaron’s heart when he goes into the LORD’s presence. In this way, Aaron will always carry over his heart the objects used to determine the LORD’s will for his people whenever he goes in before the LORD. Exodus 28:30

Then Moses placed the breastplate on Aaron and put the Urim and the Thummim inside of it. Leviticus 8:8

The breastplate was only worn by the high priest Aaron and his Levitical line sons..

No Gentile would have ever touched the Urim and the Thummim or the3 breastplate..

(No mormon is in the Levitical line...

2. If anyone other than Aaron and his sons touched them, they were to be slain...

(Do you have good documentation on the death of the Gentile Joey Smith for touching that which was forbidden ??? Of course you do...God slayed Joey Smith in June, 1844...he was lucky to get all those extra years...it was suppose to be instant death...)

3. The Urim and Thummin were never intended to make a Gentile like Joey Smith rich...they were intended only to judge and bless the people of the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob..

(Joey Smith is descended from Gentiles... not Abraham)

4. Was the Urim and the Thummim ever used later at any time...

Yes both Ezra and Nehemiah mention them when they were rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem..

The governor told them not to eat the priests’ share of food from the sacrifices until a priest could consult the LORD about the matter by using the Urim and Thummim—the sacred lots. Ezra 2:63, Nehemiah 7:65

(Since Joey Smith was not a Levitical priest he would not have been allowed by God to touch them...)

What is used now in place of the Urim and the Thummim to recieve direction from God now that the LORD Jesus Christ has returned to Heaven...

Jesus sent the 3rd Person of the Trinity, the Holy Ghost to be our guide, our Light, our Urim and Thummim, our Truth...

But when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes, He will guide you into all Truth He will not speak on His own but He will say only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come. John 16:13

Disclaimer: This lesson was written for the spiritually poverty stricken n00b, nandy. nandy’s plight just broke Nana’s kind loving heart. No charge.

[MHGinTN]

;^)

[Godzilla]

classic nana, classic

(^o^)

[Tennessee Nana]

Look who I have for support and inspiration ...

All my wonderful Flying Inman FRiends..

I luv ya all...

:)

[MHGinTN]

(^{^_oo^}) Sticken together here, boss.

[Utah Binger]

Nana bump!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Oh! I like that bulb graphic!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Kickin'!

 

      .-'\
   .-'  `/\
.-'      `/\
\         `/\
 \         `/\
  \    _-   `/\       _.--.
   \    _-   `/`-..--\     )
    \    _-   `,','  /    ,')
     `-_   -   ` -- ~   ,','
      `-              ,','
       \,--.    ____==-~
        \   \_-~\
         `_-~_.-'
 _ Nana _ \-~

[MHGinTN]

Just checking in before bedtime (^{^}o_!o^{^})

[Elsie]

bttt

[Elsie]

When Christ died, did darkness cover the land for three days or for three hours? (Luke 23:44 and 3 Nephi 8:19, 23).

This just PROVES that the bible is mistranslated in places; you silly ANTIs!

--MormonDude(Bless our Living Prophet® - who has yet to 'prophecy' anything.)