Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
Sorry I did not read it all all I saw was WND which which made me think of RazorMouth.
I used to read all the time until Farrah had this attitudes towards the LDS.
[metmom] Nor can works ever give any guarantee of salvation because you never know if you've done enough.
You are correct. You're absolutely right.
However, you're not adding in the other side of the equation. The other side of the equation is daily repentance. Then FAITH that the Lord will forgive us for our sins as He has promised to do.
The Lords promise is our guarantee.
Stourme you are getting confused again from all of your spinning again. DIdn't you earlier claim that Christ did not die for the UNGODLY. Now you are making essentially the opposite statement - the he DID die for the ungodly. Confusion reigns in the mind of the mormon apologist.
I'm not sure what Bible you're using but that's not John 6:28.
LOL, look at this metmom, he really is in a tail spin-
Metmom version
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Stoume version
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Apparently stourme cannot tell the difference between the NIV and KJV and even SEE that they say the same essential thing. LOL and stourme sez you've been deceived mm LOL.
No one is saying they do. Jesus Christ saves us. Jesus has requirements that must be met or He will not save us.
Lurkers will note that this is the crux of the deception. You have to be 'worthy' and 'godly' (essentially completely sinless within your life by your efforts) BEFORE Jesus will "save" you. Stourme likes to put the words of Jesus out there - ignoring what comes first - faith/salvation or works. Typically mormon, he gets them backwards. What does Jesus say -
John 3: 16* For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jesus speaks of no WORKS, no ORDINANCES, no temple sealings, not marriage, not even tithing - but faith expressed as belief. Since stourme claims to be a believer in looking at the whole bible Paul writes:
Ro 5:15* But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
To meet requirements is a wage, an obligation. Wages and obligations are the opposite of FREE, and a free GIFT at that. Do you pay for your gifts to you at Christmas in order to get it? For most of us the answer is no. From what stourme says, for mormons it is yes. Make that child earn the $$ for that bicycle you are going to 'GIVE' them on Christmas.
This brings us back to the point stourme has dodged all day that Paul addressed a few verses earlier -
Rom 5: 6* For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7* For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8* But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Christ died for the ungodly - nothing to 'merit' that death - nothing to 'earn' merit for that salvation. Stourme would do well to remember what else Paul wrote in this book
Ro 11:6* And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
It is grace by which we are saved - no qualifying works necessary. Perhaps a reminder from God how he views these works of righteousness
Isa 64:6* But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
If stourme does his homework, he will see that the phrase "filthy rags" is more literally rendered bloodied menstrual cloths - probably the LEAST clean thing under the mosaic law. It is these 'works' that stourme wants to claim are acceptable to Jesus in order to be saved.
Sadly, mm, this is a case or mormonitus to the max. Only enough biblical study to promote the 'twistyanity' of mormon doctrines - while being ignorant to the rest of what scripture has to say on the subject. Playing loosy-goosy with context where it benefits them, discounting context where it destroys their arguments.
Well, the posting here today have shown the shallowness of the mormon interpretation of the scriptures to the max.
We do indeed need to repent of sins that we’ve committed each day, but that doesn’t mean we’re saved and not saved on a daily basis.
It’s not like we get saved, oops, we sinned so we’re not any more, and then we confess our sin so we are again, and then oops, we sinned again and aren’t... ad nauseum.
What happens then if you forget one?
Daily confessing of sin and asking for forgiveness restores the fellowship we have with God. Sin breaks the fellowship, not the relationship.
Read the Beatitudes. It’s all about the heart, not the actions. He called the Pharisees whitewashed tombs. You can be perfect in works and still not make it because you’re trusting in your own righteousness, which is really an oxymoron since we have none in and of ourselves. Our works are as filthy rags to Him.
Faith is what pleases God and makes us righteous before Him, not works.
All works based religions beat the same drum.
If the Law that God gave is incapable of saving, any law that man makes up and adds to grace and faith is incapable of saving as well.
All these works based religions simply add their own version of what works(law) needs to be done or kept. Replacing the Law, which couldn’t save, with another law, which can’t save either, is an exercise in futility.
But it sure makes people feel good to be in control.
Speak for yourself you should know but not all hearts are unrighteious!
Why Resty!
It appears that you are RIGHT!!
MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t! 3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t! 4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal! 5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers! 6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t! 7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t. 8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures). 9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith. 10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly. 11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. — -- You can’t. 12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't. 14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't 15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself. 16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't. 17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t. 18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t. 19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't. 20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going! 21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where. 22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t. 23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple -- all you have is a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty. 25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!) 26. I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over). Revision 46.2
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.
|
The MAN replied to ME!!!
I can almost say, along with Anna, “For mine eyes have seen Thy salvation”
I have seen the restoring of gumption among the Right of America!
Thank you, Jim, for giving us a focus: a place where we could congregate and give VOICE to our thoughts; where we can explore - in detail - the things that have made our Country great.
We are now much emboldened and are ready to carry the fight to the Left with vigor.
I've kinda sensed that.
Do YOU have a Temple Recommend®?
LOL, careful with that fire mr. scarecrow - you might just get burnt. You forget a key component to your little bale of straw stourme
[Stourme]“We are saved by the grace of Christ. Christ has put qualifications on who will receive that grace.”
Lurkers will note - the key point being obfuscated by mormon apologists on this point is that there are PRE-REQUSITE requirements to receiving the grace of Christ. Lets be clear about 'grace' found in the bible within this context. By definition is it the UNEARNED favor of God. Hopefully you didn't have trouble reading that stourme. When you put 'qualifications' on that 'grace', as Paul says, it ceases to be grace. Therefore Christ died for ONLY ungodly men is correct - if you are already 'godly', you would already be sinless as well (at least according to mormon doctrine).
The simple fact that Rom 5:6 & 8 Christ died for us while we were BOTH ungodly and sinners, within the entire book of Romans, we do not have to do anything to EARN that salvation.
No, the strawman is the extra-biblical attempt by mormons to force the NT to conform to the bom - in that it is his grace, AFTER ALL WE CAN DO. Mormons cannot tell us at what point they have done all they can do to merit this 'grace' (a perversion on the use of the word in the bible). They can NEVER tell us at what point they've done enough to be saved. Elsewhere in the bom, it tells that ONLY AFTER you are completely godly - THEN is his 'grace' sufficient.
There is no one that Jesus didn't die for. But the salvation offered by Christ is not something that can be earned by works of righteousness - but strictly by grace. Paul said it best -
Ga 2:21* I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
If you are godly - Christ died in vain. Stop frustrating the grace of God stourme.
Is this one of your ‘Good Days’ or is your stenographer nearby?
I post the passage where the woman with the issue of blood for many years reached out to touch just the hem of jesus garment, faithing that He could heal her, and Jesus turning to tell her her faith hath made her whole ... and she was unclean thus her work was as filthy rags in Jesus's presence, but her faith in Him caused her healing by Him.
I posted passage after passage where Jesus tells those made whole that it is their faith which hath made them whole. And still the unregerate mind refuses to see the truth. The poster himself even offered a passage from John which has Jesus explaining that works of righteousness do not happen unless God is in you, because Jesus told the Pharisees even if they do not believe He is The Son of Man, to look at the works which Jesus could not do unless God be in Him the author of the works. And still the darkness is more comfortable to the poster. Pride/selfrighteousness is a very powerful poison dontchaknow.
No way around it carnal profane words are carnal profane words and come from a place where the almighty is not present!
No way around it carnal profane words are carnal profane words and come from a place where the almighty is not present!
Judges 16:1Then went Samson to Gaza, and saw there an harlot, and went in unto her.
And yet GOD used this man.
The simple fact that Rom 5:6 & 8 Christ died for us while we were BOTH ungodly and sinners, within the entire book of Romans, we do not have to do anything to EARN that salvation.
There is no one that Jesus didn’t die for. But the salvation offered by Christ is not something that can be earned by works of righteousness - but strictly by grace. Paul said it best -
***
So are you saying Godzilla, that Lucifer will receive grace?
Romans 4
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
God also uses Satan!
Someone was attempting to pass judgment on FreeRepublic, and as usual could not accomplish the hateful task.
Metmom is correct, you however do not give the rest of the story stourme
The other side of the equation is daily repentance.
Not according to mormon doctrine and the teachings of your apostles and prophets stourme. Take for example the misrepresented term 'repentance' what does your doctrine state?
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 58:43: “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.”
If you are having to continually "repent" stourme - then you never REALLY repented in the first place - according to your doctrine. Your prophet stated:
“Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Daily transgression and daily repentance is not that which is pleasing in the sight of God.” —Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 148
Wow, daily 'repentance' is not pleasing to your 'god' stourme. Are you willfully trying to mislead, or are have you been misled in this point?
In fact, because you have not 'repented', your doctrine states -
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 82:7: “And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.”
You have to start cleansing yourself from all your past sins too, and your god cuts you no slack does he -
ALMA 45:16: “…for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.”
Remember the term "filthy rags" stourme? Beginning to see it is impossible for you to become 'worthy' or godly enough for Jesus' grace.
Tell us when you have done ALL you can do.
Control as long as the prozac holds out.
NEVER, lucifer is not a human being, never was, never will be, but a different creation all together. Because of his place infront of God, there was no excuse for his rebellion, nor any provision for any grace. His was a form of the unpardonable sin.
Humanity is a separate creation from the angels. I know mormonism doesn't teach that, but you asked MY interpretation as a Christian.
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