Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
Thanks for your post.
I pray the Rosary because that is what Catholics do. I have statues and sacramentals because that is what Catholics do. I condescendingly tolerate Marian piety because that is what well-educated, devout, “spiritually mature” Catholics do...
What a poor excuse for idolatry, blasphemy or anything
REMOTELY CLOSE TO idolatry, blasphemy.
No! They have, by Holy Spirit, gotten their priorities more correct. GET IT RIGHT.
They question all miracles and stories which testify to the mercy and power of the Blessed Virgin, even those recorded by trustworthy authors or taken from the chronicles of religious orders. They cannot bear to see simple and humble people on their knees before an altar or statue of our Lady, or at prayer before some outdoor shrine. They even accuse them of idolatry as if they were adoring the wood or the stone.
DOH! That's because their brains have not been clouded by angels of light and deceiving demons. ABANDON THE IDOLATRY. GET IT RIGHT!
They say that as far as they are concerned they do not care for such outward display of devotion and that they are not so gullible as to believe all the fairy tales and stories told of our Blessed Lady. When you tell them how admirably the Fathers of the Church praised our Lady, they reply that the Fathers were exaggerating as orators do, or that their words are misrepresented.
WELLLL, at least they have some sense about such things. You'd be wise to follow their lead and horse sense about such things vs going off the cliff about Mamma.
These false devotees, these proud worldly people are greatly to be feared. They do untold harm to devotion to our Lady. While pretending to correct abuses, they succeed only too well in turning people away from this devotion.
PRAISE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE FATHER FOR THAT! Mama is delighted when folks are turned away from devotion to her.
So I will ask yet again, can you name a reputable group with verifiable methods that suggests there is a significantly lower number of Catholics?
To which you responded:
As I said, google pulls up a variety of numbers.
This WikiAnswers gives two estimates -- "986 million" and "over one billion."
Now, if you will refer back to my post, you will see that I asked for a REPUTABLE group with VERIFIABLE methods, your WikiAnswers were provided by ID1152302961 and That--Girl and under no circumstances would an intelligent person consider anonymous WikiAnswers contributors to be reputable or their methods verifiable (now, they may both actually be reputable and their methods verifiable, but this is impossible to conclude without any documentation).
Nevertheless, if we look and see when ID1152302961's answer of "over one billion" was given, we will see that it was on February 29, 2008 and this was more than two years before the latest estimates of membership in the Catholic Church was given. We then see That--Girl's edit of 986 million was on February 20, 2009 and still over a year before the latest estimates were released. Based on the estimates prior to those given in 2010, the membership of the Catholic church WAS around one billion; however, it is also important to realize that only about 98% of Catholics are of the Latin Rite, so there are fully 20 million Eastern Rite Catholics who WOULD NOT be considered Roman Catholic.
So, your "experts" at WikiAnswers have actually done nothing to satisfy your claim that there are a "variety of numbers" because the dates and context given are important.
One important reason why the numbers are all over the map is because Rome inflates the numbers of its members by including all those millions of men and women who have fled Rome for a faith founded on Scripture.
You've made this claim numerous times, but you have yet to actually document its validity. Do you believe that something becomes true if you repeat it enough?
While they are no longer Roman Catholics, Rome still counts them in their inaccurate tallies.
Actually, and this has been explained to you many times, the Catholic Church DOES NOT consider those who have formally left the Church to be Catholic.
I wrote:
It is generally understood that omniscience is required to know for a certainty the truth of what is in another person's heart.
To which you responded:
So not only have you broken the rules by falsely saying I believe myself to be "omniscient," but you now imply I think I know your heart.
Actually, I've said nothing of the sort, I pointed out a general understanding, I'm not responsible for any inferences you may draw from it.
However, the hearts of Roman Catholics are murky, at best.
Please tell us how you really feel, don't hold back.
ABSOLUTELY INDEED. THEY ARE FAR MORE CORRECT THAN YOU. GET IT RIGHT. TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
There is some truth in what they say, but the inference they draw to prevent devotion to our Lady is very insidious. It is a subtle snare of the evil one under the pretext of promoting a greater good. For we never give more honour to Jesus than when we honour his Mother, and we honour her simply and solely to honour him all the more perfectly. We go to her only as a way leading to the goal we seek - Jesus, her Son.
UNMITIGATED NONSENSE. That's off the track and over the cliff. REPENT. GET IT RIGHT. TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
THIS:
For we never give more honour to Jesus than when we honour his Mother, and we honour her simply and solely to honour him all the more perfectly. We go to her only as a way leading to the goal we seek - Jesus, her Son.
UNMITIGATED IDOLATROUS BLASPHEMY is like saying that I honor you to come to your house for dinner when I go straight to the back yard, climb in the rabbit hutch and chow down on some carrots with your pet rabbit as a way of honoring you.
GET IT RIGHT. CHRIST ALONE. CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED. NOTHING AND NO ONE ELSE. GET IT RIGHT. TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
I don't have first hand experience of what maternal love is really like except as the recipient, but I can detect it in my wife. I've understood, intellectually and somewhat emotionally that Jesus has a son's love for His mother and I can kind of grasp that. And that's always been the foundation for my "toleration" of Marian piety. When I (less than an hour ago) realized the fullness of the relationship that must exist when the former is joined to the latter it was quite possibly the closest thing to an epiphany I've ever experienced.
I hate to challenge folks EXPERIENCES . . . however, I think you need to change your "epiphany" in on a new one. That one was sold by a used car salesman.
Mary has more than Mama's love for Christ BY HIS SPIRIT--AND BECAUSE OF THAT, SHE DEPLORES ANY ADORATION, DEVOTION, VENERATION, PRAISE, ACCOLADES, WORSHIP etc. given to her whatsoever. ZIP, NADA, is what pleases HER.
Mother's love can easily be misplaced, overblown, etc. Even Mary had to have her love for Christ purified by Christ's blood and Holy Spirit.
The carnal, human love . . . even mother's love, is inadequate for the supremely Godly focus. Holy Spirit has to birth within us proper Godly Love. AND THAT LOVE HE BIRTHS WITHIN US FOR GOD HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER DO WITH OR EXPRESS TOWARD MARY.
HOLY SPIRIT, OF COURSE, GETS IT RIGHT. YOU'D BEST GET IT RIGHT, TOO. TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
Which I much appreciated and said so at the time.
Why are you the lone voice of sanity in such matters?
You rarely brave publically saying so though it is not uncommon.
But why are you the only one?
I realize it’s not a question you are overly the one to answer. Still it is curious.
Sorry. That rationale just doesn’t work for me at all.
Doesn’t remotely fit.
Scripture records nothing else about Mary after Pentecost.
Scripture places her in history.
Paul carrys the growth of the Church universal and of Christianity forward without a hint of a thought or concern about mary.
Follow his example. To the degree you rightly think Paul’s NT Scriptures ARE Scripture, follow his example. Leave Mary to history.
No. Not saying that.
However, the “common sense” of the average group of common citizens
in my experience is USUALLY [not always]
way above and beyond that of a like clique of self-righteous university pontificals and the like.
It’s like in China . . . one thing I loved so much about China was the emphasis on RELATIONSHIPS. Most then had such little in material goods that RELATIONSHIPS were still the priority for a long list of reasons.
The common man closer to the hard nitty gritty realities of daily life
OFTEN SEES
REAL
BETTER THAN UNIVERSITY BLOKES.
And, of course, certainly better than politicians.
I understand and appreciate your points.
I’ll have to come back to it to reply meaningfully.
“...To exacerbate pain is, well, unnecessary and even blocks communication”
It has ever been so.
“It takes all I have not to run away when you’re on a tear.”
I understand.
Quix, many times in your posts you have waved the bold, bright flag of “rabid RC cliques want to CONTROL and DOMINATE the FR Religion Forum.”
You have also indicated that you enjoy research to fact-find.
I did a little reseach myself this morning and I counted how many times you posted in a 100-post time slot. The result: you posted 50 times in a 100-post time period.
I won’t say that’s “controlling”, maybe I could call it patrolling?—or something; whatever-—but I have begun to absorb this notion that I’ve heard most all of it before already-—all of it in splashes of color and tall letters—and now I am rather Quix-drenched.
Time—again—for me to take a mini-vacation from ubiquitous posting styles.
QUITE UNDERSTANDABLE.
I’ve often quoted . . .
Ross Perot’s Mother’s comment to him one time . . .
“Ross, a little of you goes a long way.”
That’s at least partly what scroll and page down buttons are for.
Not really. It could have been worded better, but if someone had bothered to read it carefully, the plain meaning would have been understood.
But nobody even thought to ask for a clarification. They just took off with it and ran with it, backslapping and high fiving each other over it as if it were written in stone, not to mention that they then proceeded to paint ALL Protestants with the the same broad brush.
And to top it off, close to a hundred posts were made clarifying Quix's (and others) position and only ONE Catholic even took his side. The rest of the RC crowd fell silent and dropped the issue without the least acknowledgment that they were wrong, not only in their interpretation but in their negligence for not making sure of the truth of what they were broadcasting BEFORE spreading the lie.
Accusing me and every other non-Catholic of believing in a alien bioengineered Jesus IS ridiculing my faith.
1) Catholics do NOT worship Mary, we venerate her.
That which we call a rose by any other name.....
Catholics do NOT re-sacrifice Christ, we reenact the original sacrifice.
Then how can they actually, literally turned the host into the actual, literal body and blood of Christ. If they reenact the original sacrifice, which they don't do right because Christ was not sacrificed on an altar but died on a cross.
3) Priests are not "another Christ" (for the hundredth time!!!) Priests act symbolically in the place of Christ.
Then communion is just a symbolic representation of Christ.
The doctrine of transubstantiation violates the clear reading of other passages of Scripture surrounding communion.
If it didn’t, I wouldn’t have a problem with it.
Since it does and regarding it as symbolic, done in remembrance, fits with the interpretation of other Scripture, that’s how I interpret it.
I didn’t say all Catholics falsely accused Quix, I was talking about all the Catholics who falsely accused Quix.
I saw your support for him.
Well put. Thx Thx.
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