Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix
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7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, --New Living Translation 7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.] 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 9Pray, therefore, like this: 15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses. --Amplified Pray with Simplicity 5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat? 6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace. 7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this: 16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well. |
Mark Kirby: O Mother of Good Counsel, I am all thine, Most Holy Mary, There is no part of my life that is not open to thee, I want to be completely transparent with thee, Praying in this way, I can be at rest, |
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How'd I do that?
Re-read your post 1491 - your explanation of the matter. I'm sure you should be able to see it.
Two things:
(1)I was once a non-Catholic and I accepted them.
(2)What interests me is that the people who don't accept this don't often present coherent arguments too explain why they don't accept it.
1. - That's your experience. I can't relate to that as I came out of the RCC when discovering the falsehood.
2. - The subject matter is what is found in Catholic dogma and in may RC books written by approved RC writers and endorsed by the Hierarchy of the RCC. Your trying to explain them away using Philosophical reasoning is not all that pertinent. In fact, it changes what is plainly stated. Opponents to it need not present any argument to explain as the subject matter plainly reveals itself. All one has to do is to say it is false. Why? The Bible doesn't say it! Does that compute for you?
Good bye, nice reading some of what you said.
See, what I am having a hard time understanding in these few thread posts is the idea that - humor me here - someone had a tape recorder or took dictation whenever Jesus spoke?
Did not those inspired by the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD write down what HE brought to their minds - exactly like Jesus said HE would? And did not that same Holy Spirit also inspire and guide the hand and voice of the others he also used to construct the Holy Scriptures we have that guide us Christians to this day??? Paul himself spoke about new converts who needed to graduate from the "milk" of the word - as newborn babies - into the "meat" of the further doctrine and mysteries explained and expounded from that base of the gospel. Tell me, why did the Lord even bother to include the writings of Paul and Peter and John, etc. outside of the specific words of Jesus in the bible? Could it mean he had more for us to understand and know about the Christian life?
Waaayyyy to close to the "disruption in the FORCE" talk for my tastes. Smells alot like karma, too. ICK!
So tell me, how does one's suffering in "purgatory" benefit either the deceased - who can no longer make amends in the physical world - or those who have had their "windows" broken that remain? Forgiveness goes both ways.
I named but a few but I'm certain you could easily locate many more. I mentioned the gruesome Flagellants’ practice,
And then were earlier the Circumcellions, sort of ‘death oriented’ mind.
The ancient nation of Israel had a corrupt and indifferent religious leadership too. Not every single individual, of course but as a class they were a cut below the harlots and tax collectors Jesus said. (Matt. 21:31)
They were in a covenant with God! and had been for centuries, they were Abraham's children and had written the what was the Scriptures at the time, preserved it, interpreted it, and had their traditions long established.
Sounds familiar. Yet God could tell Moses He would wipe out the whole nation of rebels and keep His promises, His covenant through Moses. (Num. 14:12)
Children of Abraham? John the Baptist said God could raise children to Abraham from the stones. (Matt. 3:8) And they near to getting the ax.
One could reason that claims mean nothing and that what was destroyed in 70 A.D. was no longer His nation. There's a lesson to gleaned from the example of that nation.
I would venture it was their policy to be morally correct too, problem is, they weren't.
“You may have noticed that we have not changed our stance on, for instance, abortion for nearly 2000 years.”
“The Catholic Church has not relaxed her strict prohibition of all abortion; but, as we have seen above, she has made it more definite. As to the penalties she inflicts upon the guilty parties, her present legislation was fixed by the Bull of Pius IX “Apostolicae Sedis”. It decrees excommunication — that is, deprivation of the Sacraments and of the Prayers of the Church in the case of any of her members, and other privations besides in the case of clergymen — against all who seek to procure abortion, if their action produces the effect. Penalties must always be strictly interpreted. Therefore, while anyone who voluntarily aids in procuring abortion, in any way whatever, does morally wrong, only those incur the excommunication who themselves actually and efficaciously procure the abortion.”
But are Catholics who procure, perform, aid, advocate, accept, help to legalize, ad infinitum, abortions excommunicated and otherwise sanctioned or is it just a ‘morally correct stance’?
Simple, by the word itself - Followers of Christ.
All major heresies and most of the minor ones have their foundation in the Bible. That is why Jesus founded a Church of teaching authority, not a book of words. Jesus only wrote unknown words in the dust. He is the Word - the red letters in the Gospels. The word is written by men (except for what Moses received directly from God).
Hmmm....the NT was written by God-inspired men who wrote down what the Holy Spirit led them to write, including the "red letters" in certain versions of the Bible. As for the founding of the Assembly of called out believers from the world, led by men chosen by the assembly who were filled with the Holy Spirit. Jesus and the Apostles never taught anything about a hierarchy of leadership, and very definitely not a clergy system.
The first heresies were failure to follow what the Apostles taught and instead take the traditions as taught by influential men who sought power over the assembly. History shows this, and it happened with the Apostle John was still living. It is also recorded in the NT for you to read. Start your search with open eyes and mind.
Good luck...
WELL PUT.
THX.
WELL PUT.
THX.
That would be different from COPIOS (Catholics' Own Personal Interpretation of Scripture) as sorta guided by their particularly favored Magisterium and what they had for breakfast? How exactly???
Bravo! Amen!!
Amen...and I truly believe that our Lord permitted this to happen because of the condition of the organization that claimed all under its wings. It had forgotten to allow the chicks to grow and to feed on the "Bread of Life" without it having to be reguritated first.
“Hmmm...are you sure you’re in the same context and room that I’m in? :-)”
The context is appearances after the resurrection but before the ascension. Jesus is explaining to Mary what he means by the reference to “God”. Thomas is not there in the same room when Jesus says, “but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.”
Thomas was not at any of the appearances of the Lord before the confrontation in John 20:19 so he did not know what Jesus had said about the Father.
I get it..when one has no answer they rise above the question.. Clever but it can be seen through
I am sorry you do not understand the difference between a catechism and a commentary..
A catechism is a statement of faith not a line by line teaching of the meaning of every verse of scripture.. There is no such thing as a catholic commentary so when one preaches or teaches they are free to find what ever they want in the text.. YOPIOS is what every priest and teacher does in the RC... I heard some terrible hermeneutics in my days as a catholic .
So you say.
Okay, I’m offended. I will not respond to you further.
You know so much AND the Bible relieves you from the use of logic. But when I read the teaching of the Catholic Church on the punishment due to sin, I find in § 1472 the following [emphasis added]:
Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is call the "eternal punishment" of sin. ...This purification [namely that which constitutes" Purgatory"] frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin.... These two punishments ... "
Now it's probably beneath the notice of someone who finds logic laughable and thinks of philosophy as largely dedicated to twisting words, BUT work with me for a minute.
My limited mind, not possessed even now, as yours was years ago, with complete knowledge of the teaching of the Church stilll is locked into this logical trap of thinking that one is somehow fewer than two.
In the quoted section, which I had quoted earlier in my former, laughably dishonest and crooked post, a post FILLED with philosophical stratagems and tricks, are mentioned TWO punishment consequent upon Sin; so-called "eternal" and so-called "temporal.
Hold on to this: TWO.
Now, the same section says that the punishment "dealt with" in Purgatory is the "temporal".eternal" punishment of sin -- one far more grave -- NOT dealt with in Purgatory.
That punishment is dealt with in some other way or ways, but NOT in purgatory which, the quote shows, specifically deals JUST with the temporal punishment of sin.
SO your original contention was
"Purgatory is the place to purge your soul from the punishments due to the sins you committed while living on earth"
But as we have seen the teaching is that only SOME of "the punishment due to the sins you committed ...." is treated in Purgatory.
So unless "temporal" equals "eternal", and "some" equals "all" and "one part" is the same as "both parts," your original contention certainly appears to be mistaken, i>sicut dixi
The Wonder, the amazing forgiveness is the forgiveness of the eternal consequences, and purgation is a kind of grace, though the thinking is that it's an uncomfortable kind of grace.
The image is that you hurt yourself punching out my window. I can forgive you, and leave you will all your tendons and ligaments sliced, OR I can forgive you and give you a change to get surgery and therapy until your hand and arm are strong and sound again.
That's probably too logical or philosophical. Just stick with the freedom that lets you consider the part to be the whole, some to be all, one to be two.
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