Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix
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7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, --New Living Translation 7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.] 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 9Pray, therefore, like this: 15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses. --Amplified Pray with Simplicity 5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat? 6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace. 7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this: 16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well. |
Mark Kirby: O Mother of Good Counsel, I am all thine, Most Holy Mary, There is no part of my life that is not open to thee, I want to be completely transparent with thee, Praying in this way, I can be at rest, |
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Priests were allowed to get married while in the priesthood Mark..Synod of Elvira was the first time a church meeting "outlawed" marriage.. because in Spain the priests were giving church property to their heirs.. The synod affected only Spain not all the church
Clerical celibacy began to be enforced in papal decretals beginning with Pope Siricius In 1074, mandatory celibacy of the clergy became canon law as part of Pope Gregory VII's effort to eliminate several forms of medieval church abuses.
The reason Eastern rite Priests marry is because that was allowed when they broke off from Rome
(Shhhh! Quix is a psychologist! He's got a grant to assess the Freeper capacity for frustration. Don't tell anyone. )
It's not clear to them.
BTW, what's "YOPIOS?"
Your Own Personal Interpretation Of Scripture. Some of our separated friends frost it liberally with unChristian doctrines as well.
There's no introspection in Rome; no sense of "maybe we didn't get this right because our beliefs clearly contradict the word of God." No discernment. No rightly dividing the word. No comprehension.
You don't speak for God; you have not the authority and given your posting history, especially recently, very definitely not the understanding of Scripture.
Where do you see purgatory? Show it to me please.
I think purgatory makes the cross of Christ of no effect.. so if there is a scripture that teaches it i would be interested
Actually the Catholic church has never published a verse by verse official exposition of scripture so every Catholic priest giving a sermon, every Catholic Theologian or writer is actually his own pope and giving his own personal interpretation of scripture...
I am not playing games..I am asking you to define what mercy means Catholics will say they are saved by grace and mercy..I wonder how you all define them ???
Thank you. Saint Ken
Hmmm...are you sure you're in the same context and room that I'm in? :-)
I was content to clarify, not to defend. So many of the charges are false or, at best, badly formed. The confusion of the temporal punishment and other penalties of sin is one issue that needs to be cleared up. Don't forget, this started around indulgences, and it was claimed that indulgences somehow "purchased forgiveness."
It is (a) typical and (b) despicable, this tendency to jump around so that no point is ever resolved. I'm not playing. (Baking pita bread here so I'm kind of up and down.)
I believe I did mention the above and quoted from it: Here it is again - "These punishments are imposed by the just and merciful judgment of God for the purification of souls, the defense of the sanctity of the moral order and the restoration of the glory of God to its full majesty" (Indulgentiarum Doctrina, January 1, 1967). Yes, I'm fully aware of it and have read it, period. And that is not the only quote I mentioned from it to Mad Dawg.
Ken4TA: “Indulgences are not a teaching that came from Jesus or the Apostles.”
I stand firm on what I said here. I certainly do understand the RCC's stand on indulgences and Purgatory - that's why I reject everything they teach on it. Not only was it not taught in the first few centuries of Christianity, it was slow in developing into the doctrine it became in the 1500's, which led to the Reformation effort, at first to "reform" the church, but when they realized that wouldn't happen they left the Traditions of the RCC that were not found in the Bible - but at heart, they held to much that later reformers rejected.
Indulgences were originally to be earned to get dead "souls" out of Purgatory, but lately, in talking to some priests, the teach that one can earn them for themselves for sins they had committed and in advance for sins they may do in the future before death and after death. Sickening, really! :-(
It feels to me like a bunch of games.
Catholics will say they are saved by grace and mercy..I wonder how you all define them ???
That is not what you asked at first. At first you asked, "Do you know the definition of mercy?" (Or something very similar.) The first was about my knowledge of a definition. The second is now a general wonderment about our teaching on mercy.
WELL PUT,
WELL DONE.
I have not confused them at all. In fact, if you read carefully what I quoted and said, you would see that. And I know exactly what the RC Catechism says, just as you herein quoted from.
Temporal penalty of sin, according to the RCC, requires punishment(s) to purify one's "soul". Do you disagree with that?
To remit or forgive the punishment(s) due for sin(s), indulgences, both plenary and/or partial are needed in order for one's "soul" to ever enter into heaven. A list of them can be found in the Enchiridion of indulgences put out by the RCC.
Don't accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about, being confused or even insinuating it - for it's not true!
"Purgatory is the place to purge your soul from the punishments due to the sins you committed while living on earth" - right?
Wrong. Purgatory is the "place" where one pays the temporal penalty of sin.
That's what I said! Opps, maybe I should have added the word "guilt", but that doesn't change it one bit! What I said still stands as what the RCC teaches.
Nice try, but nothing you said adds anything to what I said. And that is one little reason why I left the RCC when I was 34 years old.
LOL.
I think Protty FREEPERS
AS A GROUP
would likely win hands down.
Quite a number of RC’s seem to go ballistic . . . at the drop of a . . . white doily.
65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe, and who he was, that would betray him.
66 And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father. 67 After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him.
Yep, and I'm sure many have quoted those same posts to RC members. If that's the best verses you can access, well, search some more - maybe there's one between the lines that would be more in context to what your trying to insinuate! - John 6:65-67.
So do I, however, the mail comes from over 700 miles away - apparently they don't realize that they are sending it out of state, for I had moved 10 years ago. That's how good their record keeping is! Thankfully, there are no RCC's in the city I live in. One has to go to the next city, and then there is only one RCC - a good size one, but declining. Many of the Catholics in my city seem to never go to church - they are out on Saturday night drinking and having fun, and on Sunday shooting 18 holes or catching up on the sleep they missed Saturday night-Sunday morning. And they are all counted as Catholics in good standing! What a farce!
And darn, I was hoping to compare the list of additions and departures to the list that I was hoping to amass from the Church of the Holy Ken4TA.
Sorry, I don't have a church either :-) But I do belong to an assembly of Christians that meets in a building near where I live - a 20 minute drive, but well worth it.
"So, you will just have to live with all the arguments presented against your church by those who know the truth of the matter. Sorry about that, but what will be will be."
Most of the claims against the Church have little or no basis in truth. Just hubris, pride and egocentrism.
I can accept that as your opinion, but to me it's not an opinion, but something that has foundation in the Bible. Sorry about that, but what will be will be - live with it.
No. The Catechism is quite clear. I feel ashamed that you were not properly catechized so that you would truly understand it and not take the positions that you do on here.
Interesting. How do they define themselves as Christians?
I can accept that as your opinion, but to me it's not an opinion, but something that has foundation in the Bible. Sorry about that, but what will be will be - live with it.
All major heresies and most of the minor ones have their foundation in the Bible. That is why Jesus founded a Church of teaching authority, not a book of words. Jesus only wrote unknown words in the dust. He is the Word - the red letters in the Gospels. The word is written by men (except for what Moses received directly from God).
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