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To: Mad Dawg
First, it seems to me to be a waste of time to argue whether a teaching true or not until we can reach some agreement about what the teaching is. We have not reached that agreement.
I think you are mistaken.
The error is that you confuse "the temporal penalty of sin" with the punishment.

I have not confused them at all. In fact, if you read carefully what I quoted and said, you would see that. And I know exactly what the RC Catechism says, just as you herein quoted from.

Temporal penalty of sin, according to the RCC, requires punishment(s) to purify one's "soul". Do you disagree with that?

To remit or forgive the punishment(s) due for sin(s), indulgences, both plenary and/or partial are needed in order for one's "soul" to ever enter into heaven. A list of them can be found in the Enchiridion of indulgences put out by the RCC.

Don't accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about, being confused or even insinuating it - for it's not true!

"Purgatory is the place to purge your soul from the punishments due to the sins you committed while living on earth" - right?

Wrong. Purgatory is the "place" where one pays the temporal penalty of sin.

That's what I said! Opps, maybe I should have added the word "guilt", but that doesn't change it one bit! What I said still stands as what the RCC teaches.

Nice try, but nothing you said adds anything to what I said. And that is one little reason why I left the RCC when I was 34 years old.


2,294 posted on 05/07/2010 3:39:25 PM PDT by Ken4TA (The truth hurts those who don't like truth!)
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To: Ken4TA
"Purgatory is the place to purge your soul from the punishments due to the sins you committed while living on earth" - right?

Wrong. Purgatory is the "place" where one pays the temporal penalty of sin.

That's what I said! Opps, maybe I should have added the word "guilt", but that doesn't change it one bit! What I said still stands as what the RCC teaches.

You know so much AND the Bible relieves you from the use of logic. But when I read the teaching of the Catholic Church on the punishment due to sin, I find in § 1472 the following [emphasis added]:

Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is call the "eternal punishment" of sin. ...This purification [namely that which constitutes" Purgatory"] frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin.... These two punishments ... "

Now it's probably beneath the notice of someone who finds logic laughable and thinks of philosophy as largely dedicated to twisting words, BUT work with me for a minute.

My limited mind, not possessed even now, as yours was years ago, with complete knowledge of the teaching of the Church stilll is locked into this logical trap of thinking that one is somehow fewer than two.

In the quoted section, which I had quoted earlier in my former, laughably dishonest and crooked post, a post FILLED with philosophical stratagems and tricks, are mentioned TWO punishment consequent upon Sin; so-called "eternal" and so-called "temporal.

Hold on to this: TWO.

Now, the same section says that the punishment "dealt with" in Purgatory is the "temporal".eternal" punishment of sin -- one far more grave -- NOT dealt with in Purgatory.

That punishment is dealt with in some other way or ways, but NOT in purgatory which, the quote shows, specifically deals JUST with the temporal punishment of sin.

SO your original contention was
"Purgatory is the place to purge your soul from the punishments due to the sins you committed while living on earth"
But as we have seen the teaching is that only SOME of "the punishment due to the sins you committed ...." is treated in Purgatory.

So unless "temporal" equals "eternal", and "some" equals "all" and "one part" is the same as "both parts," your original contention certainly appears to be mistaken, i>sicut dixi

The Wonder, the amazing forgiveness is the forgiveness of the eternal consequences, and purgation is a kind of grace, though the thinking is that it's an uncomfortable kind of grace.

The image is that you hurt yourself punching out my window. I can forgive you, and leave you will all your tendons and ligaments sliced, OR I can forgive you and give you a change to get surgery and therapy until your hand and arm are strong and sound again.

That's probably too logical or philosophical. Just stick with the freedom that lets you consider the part to be the whole, some to be all, one to be two.

2,320 posted on 05/07/2010 7:27:02 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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