Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
As no one is, or should be debating that Mary was a creature, i was pointing (i think) to my post which pertained to the real issue, that of what manner of heavenly creature has been extrapolated out to be, making Mary a or perhaps the, prime heavenly object of prayer, one who can hear and answer billions of them, enthroned with God, as the dispenser of all grace, and thru whom all must be saved. As if Heb. 4:14-16; 7:25 was speaking of her. Or the Bible even direct us to pray to anyone else but God, or ever exampled that. See my other posts on this.
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Just a question....when Jesus was here on earth, do you believe he was just a mere man, a servant like the rest...or man and God at the same time?
Man and God, though the Son of God, not the Father or Holy Spirit, though one with both the other persons of the Godhead.
I’ve also found the doctrines of the Hypostatic Union and Kenosis to help in that understanding.
BTW, it’s helpful to review the actual Greek used in the term “knowledge” in the 2ndTim passage. It is EPIGNOSIS, not GNOSIS. EPIGNOSIS is an ‘outward knowledge’, also associated with the product from the heart, vice only the mind as a compartment in the soul.
Many of the doctrines I’ve reviewed indicate EPIGNOSIS is formed from GNOSIS by a work of God the Holy Spirit in us as we take on the mind of Christ.
Some assert such EPIGNOSIS only comes through the work of faith performed by God the Holy Spirit in the believer remaining in fellowship with Him, or walking by Him, or abiding in Him, while continuing with the mind of Christ.
The output chamber of the soul, our heart, is hardened when we fall out of fellowship, and when we are tested, our response or reaction is indicative of how He has formed the EPIGNOSIS in us.
I’ve been going back through Colosians recently and it also provides some outstanding reference to EPIGNOSIS, sometimes also translated as “the acknowlegement” of the mystery of God, as well as “knowledge”.
Col 2:2
(2) That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement(EPIGNOSIS) of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Col 1:9
(9) For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge(EPIGNOSIS) of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Here's another one for you. All things were created by the Son.
Col 1:13-19
(13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
(14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
(18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
(19) For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
I know I don’t do this often (;o)), but I will have to disagree with you here on a most important point. The Holy Spirit per Ephesians 1:14 is given as an “earnest” of our inheritance. That word means:
1) an earnest
a) money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the full amount will subsequently be paid
It does not imply at all that it is a “first installment”. When you buy a house for example, you put down earnest money when you make an offer. This tells the seller that you have some “meat in the game” and intend to buy the house once all agreed conditions are met. If you back out of the deal, you don’t get that money back and the seller COULD take you to court and force the sale. When you buy something using lay-away (do people still have that?) or something financed you make installment payments. If you stop making payments, you don’t get the item or the item is reposessed.
Scripture makes it clear in several places that the Holy Spirit is sealed within us “Until the day of redemption”. At no place does it say we can break that seal and since, we obtain the promise of eternal life by God’s grace through faith, we are held by him in his hand and he will never cast us out or lose us. We are saved by grace and that same grace keeps us saved.
Now did anyone ever lose the Holy Spirit? Yes, but it is only spoken of in the Old Testament. Where God’s spirit came and went. David prayed for God not to take his spirit from him. Nowhere in the New Testament after the sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us on the cross are we told this happens. In fact, we are told numerous times that it is a sealed deal. See also:
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
2Cr 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
2Cr 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
So, I don’t know where the idea came from that the Holy Spirit given to us as an earnest, comforter, teacher is just a “first installment” of our salvation, like a lay-away, but it is not right.
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GOD'S and CHRIST'S Eternality (eternal existence) |
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Ps. 90:2: “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psalm 93:2: “Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting” |
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. |
It should be obvious that Micah's prophecy is that of the Messiah Christ who was born in Bethlehem, and that the same eternal existence that is ascribed to God is likewise ascribed to Jesus. That “from everlasting” is descriptive of eternality should also be Theologically clear in the light of the rest of God's revelation, such as in the quoted texts from the Psalms in which we see that God is “from everlasting,” having no beginning, and having no end. Only in rare instances dealing with earthly man does everlasting mean anything less than eternity, whereas Micah 5:2 describes the eternal existence of the Messiah.
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Question: How far back are both God and the prophesied Messiah said to exist
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Creative Power |
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Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Psalm 33:66 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Isiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself. Jeremiah 32:17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee: Jeremiah 51:15 He hath made the earth by His power, he hath established the world by His wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by His understanding. Nehemiah 9:6 Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee. |
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Ephesians. 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Colossians. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for him: Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; |
"In the beginning" need not denote a beginning for the Word, and Jesus and Himself stated that He was with the Father before the world was: Jn. 17:5), but that the Word was present in the beginning, and that by, or through Him all things were made that were made (See under titles regarding "the Word was God"). This of course excludes that the Word Himself could have been created, as the Watchtower Tract Society (so-called Jehovah's Witnesses, herein referred to as the WTS) erroneously teaches. Seeing as this is not what the Bible taught, the WTS had to make their very own Bible* (the "New World Translation"), in which they deliberately insert the non-existent (in the original language texts) word "other" in Col. 1:16, so that it reads "by him were all other things created... However, "other" is not in the Greek text nor is that what the Bible teaches, and no creative activity was ever attributed to angles, but both Jn. 1:1-3, Eph. 3:9; Col. 3:16 and Heb. 1:1, 2 clearly teach that all things were made through Christ "who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.!" (Rm. 9:5). *Along with a consensus of multitude other scholars, after doing a well documented and thorough critical analysis of their New World Translation, Dr. Robert Countess concluded, "(It) must be viewed as a radically biased piece of work. At some points it is actually dishonest. At others it is neither modern nor scholarly" (The Jehovah's Witnesses' New Testament, p. 93). Unlike most other translations of the Bible (above all the KJV), the official WTS translation of the Bible had only 5 translators, and only one of them made himself known, and when examined in court he lied about his ability to read Hebrew! See HERE for more |
Question: Is any creative activity (of the universe) ever attributed to any created being?
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Creative Power Continued |
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Ps. 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. 26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: 27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end. |
Heb. 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. |
Further declaration of Jesus Divinity is seen in another attribution to Him of Old Testament texts which refer to God. In Heb. 1:10 + 11 we see a direct quote from Ps. 102:25-27 which reveals that the One of whom these verses spoke of – and who created the Heavens – was in fact Jesus Christ! |
Question: Who according to these verses created the earth, and the heavens, changes not and will be forever?
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Omnipotence |
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Genesis 17:1: And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Joel 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come. |
Revelation 1:7: Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. |
We see that only God can claim to be All-mighty, which likewise is said of Christ. Acts 1:11 makes it clear that Rev. 1:8 is speaking of Christ, who was pierced, and it is He who went up into the clouds and so “shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” Also, under Unique Titles we will see that Jesus is called Alpha and Omega. That the Father reserved some revelation for Himself (Acts 1:7) need not negate the Deity of Christ, as it is also said that “the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God” (1Cor. 2:10). |
Question: Who is coming with clouds, and what Divine title is He called by?
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Immutable |
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Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. |
Heb. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. |
God does not change, but we need to. This refers to His essential being, character, and attributes, etc., and not what manner He may chose to reveal Himself or function. |
Question: What Being has never and will never change in these essentially ways?
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Almighty Power to give and preserve life |
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Deuteronomy 32:39: See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. |
John 10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. |
The parallel here is no mistake or coincidence: No mere man dared ever made such a claim in the Bible, and no one can, as only God can give eternal life and claim Almighty power over all! This verse also shows how the Father and the Son work together, with the Son being the One through whom the Father does His work. While God does work through believers as well, the power to give eternal life is a unique Divine attribute, and this verse must be taken with others which show that Jesus Christ is not a mere worker but possesses the same Divine nature as God the Father. |
Question: What should our reaction be to anyone less than God claiming to have the power to give eternal life by believing in him?
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Power over nature |
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Ps. 89:6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD? 7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him. 8 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee? 9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them. Ps. 107:28 Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses. 29 He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still. |
Mt. 8:25 And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish. 26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. 27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him! |
Again the parallel here is unmistakable, and answers the apostle's question, “What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!” with a revelation that Jesus was not simply man, but God, revealing His power and love in human flesh. While men like Moses also did some great miracles, none match either the scope or greatness of the manner of Christ. And very critically, to no one does the Holy Spirit make such evident purposeful parallels between declarations of God's unique demonstrations of power and claims, and that of Christ! No one can be so compared to God as Christ is unless He is God by nature, and thus both the likeness of the act here and the reverence given to Christ is manifestly paralleled. |
Question: Who is so manifestly compared to the Almighty here? What manner of person is the Holy Spirit progressively revealing Jesus to be?
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Only Divine Savior |
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Ps. 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from Him. 6 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved. Is 45: 22 Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. |
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. John 5:40 And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have life. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. |
Nowhere does or can anyone call souls to look directly to Him for spiritual salvation but God. Such attributes, coupled with more explicit declarations of Jesus being God with the Father and Spirit, serve to testify to that fact. |
Question: Who is the only Divine Savior? Compare in both Testaments.
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Giver of the Spirit |
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Psalm 68:18, 19 Thou [the LORD] hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah. Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: |
John 14:16, 17 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Wherefore he saith, When He [JESUS] ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Eph 4:8). |
This sending forth of the Holy Spirit is another uniquely divine function, which no angel or man can do. |
Who is the only One who can send the Holy Spirit from Heaven?
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Commander of the Spirit |
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Ps. 104:30 Thou sendest forth Thy Spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. |
John 16:12 -14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will show you things to come. He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. |
While born again souls may speak by the Spirit, we see here that the Spirit speaks by Jesus, and He in turn speaks by the Father. ”For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” (1 John 5:7 AV). |
How does this help reveal the Oneness of God?
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Dweller of souls |
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2 Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue. 1 Peter 1: 10-11 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. |
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and my Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him. 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, |
No man or angel nor any created being can actually dwell in believers hearts as God promises He will and does by His Spirit. That only the Father and Jesus together do this not only reveals the Holy Spirit but that Jesus is One with the Father (and the Holy Spirit) in His inherent nature, a manner and quality of Oneness that man does not share. [Note: the indwelling spoken of in Jn. 14:23 indicates not simply the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which every true convert realizes (Acts 15:7; Eph: 1:13), but an “abiding” as one being at home in the fully surrendered obedient believer, such as Eph. 3:14 speaks of. And which i must seek, by trusting and obeying] |
Who is the only Heavenly Being that can dwell in believers?
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Heavenly Object of Prayer |
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Psalm 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from Him. 6 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved. 7 In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God. 8 Trust in Him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before Him: God is a refuge for us. Selah. Psalm 102:1 A Prayer of the afflicted, when he is overwhelmed, and poureth out his complaint before the LORD. Hear my prayer, O LORD, and let my cry come unto Thee. |
Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 1Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Heb 7:25 Wherefore He [JESUS] is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them (cf. 1Tim. 2:15).
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Nowhere in Scripture is anyone but god in Heaven addressed in prayer, except by idolaters. Nor is there any evidence of Heavenly intercession made by angels, or departed saints, etc. Here is is clear that not only is Jesus our one and only Heavenly intercessor, but that He is addressed directly in prayer, just as He is in calling upon the Lord for salvation (Joel 2:32; Rm. 10:13). Praise ye the Lord! |
Question: Are we to pray to anyone else but God for salvation and help?
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To Whom we are to witness |
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Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour. 12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have showed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. |
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 10:42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. |
Again, no one else called and sent forth witnesses unto themselves but God. While this might not be the strongest testimony to Christ's uniqueness as the Divine Son of God, it is one more in an abundance of examples of Jesus exercising Divine functions and positions that were uniquely claimed by God. |
Question: Whose name are we saved by, and to whom are we to witness? Compare in both Testaments.
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Lord of angels |
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Daniel 6:22 My God hath sent His angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt. Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. |
1 Pet. 3:22 Who [Jesus] is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto Him. Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. |
Notice that the person called God has power of angels, which is another unique Divine attribute which Christ exercises. Then, Rev. 22:6 explicitly says that the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel, yet in v. 16 it identifies Jesus as the Lord who sent the angel. |
Question: Who alone sends angels in the Old Testament, and what does that tell us about Jesus who sends them in the New?
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Searcher of Hearts |
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Jer 17:10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Ps 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. |
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; all the churches shall know that I [Jesus] am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. |
To no one else, man or angel, is ascribed this function but God. Seeing as this is only one more of a multitude of Divine attributes that are ascribed to Christ, His Deity deniers must propose that God as an absolute singular person did indeed give His glory and unique functions to another apart from Him, or that the Lord who claimed these unique attributes was in fact the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as the Bible manifests. |
Question: Who is the only Divine searcher of hearts? Compare in both Testaments.
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God the Creator |
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Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Is. 44:24 I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself”. Gn. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said,... |
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. Jn. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Rev. 19:13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. |
The aspect of Jesus as creator has been dealt with under the Attributes category, and here we will focus on His title as God the Creator. As this plainly teaches that the Word was God, and that Jesus Christ is the Word who became flesh (a person and not an simply a abstract metaphysical force), then, like the serpent in the Garden, those who oppose His Deity must attack what God hath said. Souls who sincerely seek to please God should search out a matter as God leads, but the motive of these Christ-deniers is manifested by the means they must and do employ to deny the Lord Jesus His Divinity. As the Watchtower Tract society makes Jesus into an image that is only a created being like an angel they had to make their own perverted translation.* In order to escape the obvious declaration of Jn. 1:1, the WTS came up with a “grammatical rule” by which they make Jn. 1:1 to read, the word was “a god”! They attempted to validate their rendering by distorting a statement by Professor Julias Mantey, and who publicly reproved them for doing so, and classified their translation as “shocking” among other negatives. Another authority invoked was that an occultic German spiritualist, Johannes Greber, who relied on demonic “spirit guides” to translate the Bible! No wonder the WTS referenced him at least 7 time for support in their publications (www.watchman.org/jw/greber.htm). Besides the fact that consistent application of this WTS rule would require verses such as Jn. 1:12, 13, 18, and 3:2 (and others) to also read “a god,” by making the Lord Jesus “a god” they also have in fact made Him out to be a false god! For while one can can be called “a god” in the sense of occupying a god-like position as did Israel's judges (Is. 82:6) and to which the Lord contrasts Himself (Jn. 10:34), no one can claim to be a god in the spiritual sense and possess attributes unique to God without competing with the one true and living God: “Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. (Is. 44:8).” Jesus Christ, the Word, is not “a god”, but He is God, uniquely possessing the same nature as His Father, and as the incarnated Word He is the visible expression of the invisible God, “..the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power” (Heb. 1:3a). Praise ye the Lord! |
Question: How can the Scriptures ascribe attributes, titles and glory that belong uniquely to God without being blaspheming, unless He is God?
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O God |
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Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. |
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. |
Continuing the theme last seen in Hebrews 1:10+11, here again we see an Old Testament text which referred to God being interpreted in the New, attributing this to Christ. This one in particular confirms Jn. 1:1, and instead of Jesus being “a god”, God Himself calls Jesus God (as does Jn. 1:1), attributing Ps. 45:6 to Him. This is not merely in a positional sense, as the following verses attribute creative activity to Christ. |
Considering that this chapter declares Jesus to be the Creator through whom God made the worlds – which He says He made alone – and is worshiped and called God, why do some souls reduce Him to be just a part of creation?
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Mighty God |
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Deu 7:21 Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a Mighty God and terrible. Psalm 50:1 A Psalm of Asaph. The Mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. |
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. |
Another Divine title, never given to man nor angel, is again ascribed to Christ, prophetically in this case. The WTS here seeks to rob Christ of Divinity by asserting that Jesus is the “mighty God” (as in “a god”), while only Jehovah is Almighty, but that too is a uniquely Divine title, while Rev. 1:8 also ascribes that title also to Christ, while Jehovah is also called mighty. |
Question: What created being was ever called both the Mighty God and Almighty?
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The True God |
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2 Chron. 15:3 Now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law. Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. |
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (1 John 5:20) Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
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Lest one say this is a wrong translation, every one i checked (ALT, ASV, EMTV, GB, ISV, KJV, KJ21, LITV, NASB, YLT has Christ “this is” or “this one” or “this same” or “He is” the true God and eternal life. That is, the Son of God, who is the immediate antecedent to the relative "this"; he is the true God, with his The Greek is, "The true God and eternal life is this" Jesus Christ, [GILL] x
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If John was not revealing to us that the Father and the Son were the One True God (with the Spirit), why would he be so careless as to write as he did?
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The LORD |
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Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. 9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. |
John. 12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? 35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. 36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. 37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias [Greek form if Isaiah] the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw His glory, and spake of him. 42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on Him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. 44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me.” |
This is one of the most profound, and yet subtle declarations of the Divinity of Christ in the Bible. Here we see that who Isaiah saw in His glory was Jesus Christ. John 12:34b contains the pertinent question, just “ who is this Son of man?” The Lord, as He often does, replies in an enigmatic way that will manifest the difference between true seekers and false ones, which most of these listeners were, hearing Christ and seeing His mighty miracles but not responding. If they would obeyed what the Lord has shown them, then more light would be given, and they would realized and accepted who Christ was. May the readers of this trust and obey. As they would not obey, Jesus then hides Himself, which hearkens back to Is. 45:15: “Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.” The reason these these Jews could not see is explained by twice referencing to the prophet Isaiah, the first being that of Is. 53:1 in which the prophetic utterance of a people that would reject Christ is seen in the very people of Jn.12 (and would later manifest it more). The second reference to Isaiah declares that the judicial blindness imposed upon them was due to their rejection of truth and was a fulfillment of prophecy, and it is here that the answer to the question of Jn. 12:34b is revealed. Notice from the context that the subject who is being rejected is Christ, “the arm of the Lord” of the first prophecy in Is. 53. The Holy Spirit (the author) then reveals Is. 6:10 in the fulfilled sense (whereas to Isaiah it was a commission) and declares that Isaiah uttered this prophecy WHEN he saw HIS GLORY and spake of HIM, meaning Christ! What the Holy Spirit is revealing here is unmistakable, that Isaiah in fact was looking upon Jesus, whom he called LORD. While some might suppose this to mean Isaiah saw Jesus glory prophetically, there is no indication of that in Is. 6, rather it is clearly manifest that Isaiah saw the LORD in His glory (6:1-14) That this refer to Christ finds more evidence in the ensuing revelation as Jesus, continuing with the prevalent theme in John in which Christ is The Light (Jn. 1:4-9; 3:19-21, 9:5), declares, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. That is to say, when Isaiah saw the “Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and His train filled the temple” then He was seeing Jesus! No man could do or claim what Jesus did (and does), and like most Jews in the gospels, those who refuse to “see” who Jesus Christ essentially is will continue in darkness, and find themselves in “outer darkness” for eternity. May the readers of this turn from darkness to light, and receive and follow The Light, even the Lord Jesus Christ, and live forever thru Him! “Blessed be the name of the LORD from this time forth and for evermore” (Ps. 113:2). Lk. 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. 23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: 24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. |
Question: Who did Isaiah see in His glory when he uttered the prophecy that is referred to in John?
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LORD continued |
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Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. |
Luke 1:13b “...thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. Luke 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God 17 And he shall go before Him [Jesus] in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Luke 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; Mt. 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. |
Isaiah speaks prophetically of one who will “go before the face of the Lord,” “to make ready a people prepared for the Lord” to call Israel to prepare the way of the Lord, to repent and so be ready for the coming of Him who will offer comfort to a chastened Israel. This “Lord” is clearly Jesus in the gospels, and is God (with the Father and the Spirit) in the Old Testament. And thus is He rightly worshiped. |
Question: Who is the highway prepared for in Isaiah, and who did John prepare the way for in fulfillment of Isaiah?
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Lord and God |
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Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is none else. 1Chrn. 17:20 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears. Ps. 35:23 Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord. |
Jn. 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. |
No man or angel would ever allow himself to be called by the Divine title, “Lord and God,” and that is what Thomas does here. Thomas is not simply saying “O my God,” but the text says he responded to Jesus and said to Him, “My Lord and my God.” Instead of being rebuked for this statement, he is commended by Christ for His perception not only that this person was the Lord Jesus, but God. Like as Peter confessed Jesus Sonship (Mt. 16:16), Thomas even more explicitly confesses Jesus Divine nature. Would that those who read this had Thomas and blessed, something no true prophet would do unless it was correct. |
Question: Why do most souls refuse to call Jesus “Lord and God” when Thomas was commended for doing so?
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Saving LORD |
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Ps. 55:16 As for me, i will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me. Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. |
Rm. 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Rm. 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. |
Here again we see the LORD of the Old Testament identified as Jesus in the New. No soul ever called upon Moses to spiritually save them, as that would be blasphemy (attributing Deity to Him), but it is right and glorifying to God, and saving to one's soul to call upon the Lord Jesus for salvation, with a poor and contrite repentant heart. Praise the Lord! |
Question: Who is the Lord in Joel 2:32 that Romans 10:13, in quoting that verse, says we are to call upon for salvation,
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The Lord of Assured Salvation |
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Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. |
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. |
Related to the above, we see that the Scripture Romans 10:11 comes from is Isaiah 28:16, and as has already been shown, the Lord that we are called to be saved by here is the LORD of Joel 2:32. The promise of salvation still holds for those who will accept this corner stone, the Lord Jesus. Accept no substitutes. |
Question: Who is the corner stone and object of faith for assured salvation?
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Lord of lords |
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Psa 136:3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. |
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
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Here again a uniquely Divine title is ascribed to Christ. This is part of God's glory that He will not give to another (Is. 42:8), but Jesus receives it as He is God with the Father and Spirit. Therefore in the day when the Lord alone shall be exalted, we see the Father and the Son being worshiped together (Rev. 5:12-14). See more under section 3, Worship. |
Question: How can Jesus be called by such unique Divine titles if He were not God by nature and in position (under the Father)?
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Lord of glory |
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Ps. 29:3 The voice of the LORD is upon the waters: the God of glory thundereth: the LORD is upon many waters. |
1Cor. 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. Ja. 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. |
Again, as Jesus is given a “name above every name,” and by nature is above all men and angels, no man nor angel is ever addressed by this title. |
Question: Whose real identity were the rulers ignorant of in crucifying Jesus?
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The LORD to whom all will bow |
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Is. 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. |
Phil. 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. |
The Holy Spirit shows us here that the fulfillment of Isaiah 45:23, which declares that every knee shall bow to God and tongue swear (or trust in, or invoke as authoritative), by Him, is to be when every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord (the authoritative One who is worthy of supreme trust, as only God is). This is part of God's glory that He will not give to another, but seeing as Christ is uniquely His Son, possessing the same uncreated, Divine nature, so is He worshiped along with the Father. Rev. 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. |
Question: To Whom is every knee bowing to and confessing in universal worship?
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The Great I AM |
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Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. |
John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John. 9:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? 5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. |
John 8:58 clearly declares that Jesus laid claime to the unique Divine title of God expressed in Ex. 3:14, which essentially denotes the same as Ps. 90:2, that God is self existent, that He always was. Jesus use of this to claim the same is perfectly in context. That the Pharisees understood what the Lord meant is seen in their reaction: “Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by” (v. 59). The references of John 8:24, 9:19; and 18:4-6 are not primary, as the supplied word “he” (in italics) is added by the translators and can be required by the context (cf. Jn. 9:9) or grammatical rules i am ignorant of. Yet the use of I am in these verses seem to purposely indicate that He was the Divine I AM,and not simply that He was the Messiah or Jesus of Nazareth. |
Question: What significance does the title “I AM” have as used by Christ in relation to who He is by nature?
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Master and LORD |
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Isaiah 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. Hos. 11:3 I taught Ephraim also to go, taking them by their arms; but they knew not that I healed them. Is 26 For his [man's] God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him. |
John 13:13 "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am." |
The Divine “teacher” of the elect and “Lord,” respectively, in the Old Testament corresponds to Christ in the New. I see the distinction made here between the words master and Lord, as between Christ as one who instructs (master), and that of Him as Lord, corresponding more to Him as Divine, as the great I AM. |
In what way was Jesus both Master and Lord above others?
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King of Israel |
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Isaiah 43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. |
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. |
While it is true that men like David were called the King of Israel, the context here is spiritual, and which appellation belongs only to God! |
Question: In conjunction with the statements made about Christ in John 1, what is the essential nature of this king?
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First and the Last |
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Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and His redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. |
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:... Rev. 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Rev. 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. |
This unique Divine title goes along with the first, that of Ps. 90:2 and Micah 5:2. Both the person called God in the Old Testament And and Christ in the New are declared to be the “first” and the last, as Jesus is God with, and under the Father and with the Spirit. [Also, when Christ is said to be the “beginning [or commencement] of the creation of God” (Rev. 3:4, it does not denote time as if He were created, rather it denotes Christ as both the efficient cause and Head of of all creation. He that existed before all else has the primacy of position over all else. God blessed forever.] |
Question: Once again, how can such unique Divine titles be ascribed to anyone else but God?
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The Rock |
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Deuteronomy 1:32 Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God, 33 Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in, in fire by night, to show you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day. Deuteronomy 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Deuteronomy 32:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. |
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. |
The Rock denotes solidity, which in it's perfect sense is only found in God, and in 1Cor. 10 that is of whom Christ s the “Rock” speaks. Here it is revealed not only that God is the supreme Rock, but that the One who led the Israelites of old out of Egypt and into the promised land was Christ – and who judged them for their rebellion. So will He do for all who follow him now – and will judge us if we rebel. |
Question: Who is called the Rock in the Old Testament, and who led Israel in the wilderness?
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Rock of offense |
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Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. |
1 Peter 2 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the Scripture [Is. 28:16], Behold, I lay in Sion a chiefstone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. |
The Lord of hosts is the prophesied stumbling stone and rock of offense in Isaiah, while it is clearly Christ in 1 Peter. Sadly the Deity of Jesus is still a stumbling block and rock of offense for those who will not submit to Him. |
Question: Who again, is the rock speaking of, and what kind of obstacle is He to those who deny His Divinity?
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Saviour, Redeemer, Husband and God |
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Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself; Isaiah 49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. Isaiah 4:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Jer. 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: |
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Eph. 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and He is the Saviour of the body. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. |
Only the LORD God is the Savior, Redeemer and Husband of God's elect in the spiritual sense, and thus the church looks forward to the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. |
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Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was His [very own] Father, making himself equal with God. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him. Phil. 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Robertson's Word Pictures and others understand, “that God was His Father” in the Greek of the New Testament (“alla kai patera idion elege ton theon”) indicates a uniqueness of a relationship, with “His own” (idion) being in a sense not true of others. That is what Jesus meant by “My Father” here. And what the Lord meant to convey is rightly perceived by the Jews. Jesus' subsequent words explained the order within the unity of that unique Divine relationship, and also that the honor that belongs uniquely to God is to be given to the Son, having fulfilled what only God incarnated in the flesh could do. See Rom_8:32 for ho idios huios, “his own Son.” No man, angel or created being could ever claim the right to be honored EVEN AS the Father, as such honor, as an aspect of of the worship only God deserves, is only a Divine right. While Christ exaltation to the position of Lord was in the justice of God due to His abasement of His obedience to death of the cross (Phil. 2:5-9), this alone does not answer how Jesus could receive the universal worship with the Father as God (Rev. 5:13). The answer to that is seen in the Biblical revelation that the Father and the Son had an unique intrinsic relationship of “Oneness” (Jn. 5:18; 17:5) which preceded Jesus incarnation, and as many Scriptures clearly as well as subtly testify, Jesus was and is God in His essential nature. While worship is first of all done in the heart, in the Bible worship is often shown outwardly by the act of bowing down, and in fact that is what the Hebrew word [7812] for worship means, to depress, or prostrate, make to stoop, etc. Hence the 2nd of the 10 commandments in prohibiting idolatry is "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God” (Ex. 20:5). The bowing down in idolatrous worship which the Lord forbade is what the Israelites would later be chastened for doing: And it came to pass, when the judge was dead, that they returned, and corrupted themselves more than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them, and to bow down unto them; they ceased not from their own doings, nor from their stubborn way” (Judg 2:19) . Only rarely did any man of God receive bowing down in obeisance, not as to God but in humble abasement to man, and though God can and will make the enemies of His people bow down to them (Rev. 3:9), it is never shown to be on a regular voluntary basis. The Jews understood what bowing down normally signified, and the offense of Mordecai (the devout Jew) was that he "bowed not nor did him [wicked Haman] reverence" [7812] (Est. 3:5). Meanwhile, a Godly example to voluntary worship is shown by that of Peter's reaction when “Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man” (Acts 10:26). When the awe-struck apostle John feel down to worship the angel sent by Jesus (Rev. 22:16), the angel commanded him "See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God" (Rev. 19:10; 22:9). In contrast, the Lord Jesus uniquely regularly received worship as to God, even as He did and said things that declared that He was God manifest in the flesh. He never prohibited anyone from bowing down/worshipping Him, and blessed souls who did, such as the leper who was made whole by so doing (Lk. 17:12-19). May we and many more follow His humble example. As bowing down with one's body or prostrating oneself before someone or thing is usually for the worship of God (or in idolatry), then there is little warrant for ascribing the use of that word as it applies to what Christ often received as always meaning something less than WORSHIP as to God. WORSHIP as to God. If my count is right), even though the Greek word for worship/worshipped (proskeneo) in the New Testament can be used for prostrating oneself before a man, it is only used that way 5 times out of 54 occurrences The rest of the times it is used to denote worship of Christ (approx 22 times) or of God in general. The devil understood how bowing down is usually part of worship, and thus sought it of Christ Himself, “All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me" (Mt. 4:9). However, the Lord would not worship the devil, and it will be the devil who will bow down in compelled worship, along with all who will not worship Christ while they are given grace to do so (Phil. 2:9-11). |
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Divine worship A few instances of the Lord JESUS being worshipped |
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Psalm 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. Deuteronomy 10: Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; Him shalt thou serve, and to Him shalt thou cleave, and swear by His name. Daniel 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: |
Matthew 2:2, 11a: Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship Him. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped Him.. Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped Him., saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped Him., saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped Him.. Luke 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord. Luke 8:41 And, behold, there came a man named Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue: and he fell down at Jesus' feet, and besought him that he would come into his house: Luke 17:15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. John 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped Him. Col. 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. |
These instances, seen as a whole along with the Holy Spirit's Scriptural declarations of His Divinity, reveal far more than obeisance to a man or ruler, especially when it is done out of affection, and not simply by constraint of need. |
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God Blessed |
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Neh 9:5 ... Stand up and bless the LORD your God for ever and ever: and blessed be thy glorious name, which is exalted above all blessing and praise. Dan 2:2 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are His: Psalm 66:20 Blessed be God, which hath not turned away my prayer, nor his mercy from me. Psa 68:35 O God, thou art terrible out of thy holy places: the God of Israel is he that giveth strength and power unto his people. Blessed be God.
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Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. |
Here Christ is blessed as God over all, which is consistent with Acts 10:36. One may say that Paul is just praising God the Father for Christ, or for Israel, but the grammar runs contrary to that, and there were no punctuation in the original Greek mss. Rather, like as in other places i see another reference to Jesus as God, that being His essential nature. This does not militate against the Father being God, any more than the more obvious attributions to Jesus as God do, in keeping with the revelation of the Oneness of God as a composite unity. |
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Singular and universal worship of God |
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Isaiah 2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. Isaiah 42:8: “I am the LORD: that is My name: and My glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images” Psalm148:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. 2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. |
Revelation 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Psalm 97:7 ...worship him, all ye gods. Heb. 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. |
Here we see part of that day of the Lord in which the Lord ALONE shall be exalted, and thus both the Father and the Son are universally worshiped together by all the created host, as no angel nor man can ever be! Regarding Ps. 148:1, 2 and Heb. 1:6, “firstbegotten” (from the dead for instance: Rev. 1:5) denotes position, not necessarily a time of birth, especially since Christ as a person existed “from everlasting” (Mic. 5:2; Jn. 17:5). The worship of Him is not only in His post resurrection state, but was in His incarnation and nativity (Mt. 2:11). |
Thank you for these two posts. For a “mere” High School educated truck driver, you have been taught well of the things of God by his Holy Spirit. But, when you think about it, you had more eduction than most of the Apostles and look what God was able to do with them! God bless you and I hope you continue to bless us with your posts.
For those arguing free will, here is a good example.
Thank you, Creation by the Son is NT, and I was trying to get NGZ as quickly in as possible. You are correct of course. All judgement has been given to the Son. One would think a person trying to understand Chritianity, would get to know Jesus more fully.
Why didn’t you just refer the link for this???? Same with the rolls of info stretched thru this thread?? At least we could then save the link and refer to it or read at a later time....next thing will be someone will insert a whole book here! Seesh!
The seal which manifests we are now in the royal family of God, adopted sons, cannot be removed by the believer, regardless of the believer’s walk with God. The sanctifying work of God the Holy Spirit might be put on hold, the believer might degenerate while out of fellowship with God, but the only God has the keys of life and death, not the believer.
One of the most arrogant things any human can do is to think we have the ability to remove the life He has created.
God the Holy Spirit makes five signature guarantees.
1. God the Holy Spirit guarantees that our faith alone in Christ alone is effective for salvation. God the Holy Spirit takes the unbeliever’s faith alone in Christ alone and makes it effective for salvation. God the Holy Spirit guarantees His ministry of making that faith effective for salvation. God the Holy Spirit puts His seal on the unbeliever’s faith alone.
2. The Holy Spirit guarantees eternal life at the point of salvation to everyone who believes in Christ. He does this by the creation of the human spirit, to which God the Father imputes eternal life. God the Holy Spirit seals that eternal life, Eph 4:30. There is nothing any human or all the power of hell can ever do to cancel this guarantee.
Eph 4:30
(30) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
3. God the Holy Spirit guarantees the eternal security of the believer at the moment of salvation, Eph 4:30. We cannot cancel the forty things God does for us at salvation. We cannot undo what God has done. We cannot renounce our faith in Christ and no longer be saved.
4. God the Holy Spirit guarantees the portfolio of invisible assets for every Church Age believer. There are two guarantees of our portfolio of invisible assets: the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit at salvation and the indwelling of Christ as the Shekinah glory.
Eph 1:13
(13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
2 Cor 1:21-22
(21) Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
(22) Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
“But God [the Father] who strengthens us in Christ [predestination] along with you, and has anointed us [baptism of the Holy Spirit plus the sealing of the Holy Spirit], who also put a seal on us and has given us the Spirit in our hearts [filling of the Holy Spirit] as a guarantee [down payment].”
5. God the Holy Spirit guarantees the redemption of the body on the day of redemption. Redemption of the soul occurs at the moment of salvation, Rom 3:24; Gal 3:13; Eph 1:7; Col 1:14. Redemption of the body occurs at the Rapture or resurrection of the Church, Rom 8:23, “You have been sealed to the day of redemption.”
“Don’t you think that would be an important thing to find out?”
It isn’t real high on my list.
When in college, I had a roommate who converted. He was filled with enthusiasm, and witnessed productively to several people. Perhaps 6 months later, he became a Buddhist...
The normal (for me) interpretation is that he was never saved at all, but was a false Christian. 1 John has, “19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.”
But the heart is deceitful. During those 6 months, if you asked him, I am 100% certain he would have said ‘yes, I am a Christian’. Would he have been lying? To us, certainly, and quite possibly to himself.
Now, nearly 40 years have passed since my conversion. There was a period in my 20s where I was bitter about some Christians I had met, rarely went to church, and most looking at my actions would have put me in the “not a Christian” category.
I didn’t once doubt my salvation. God had started something in me, and would see it through to the finish. I eventually repented my bitterness (in truth, the problem was primarily with ME, not the other Christians) and have been somewhat more visibly ‘Christian’ in the years since. So my testimony would be in favor or eternal security.
However, what matters isn’t my testimony, but God’s. What does the scripture say? THAT is the measure of truth, not my feelings or my experience.
And while I can think of passages that support eternal security, I can think of others about needing to persevere to the end. Maybe if I was an introspective person, and inclined to probe my feelings, I would feel a compulsion to study it. But I’m the least introspective of people, I’ve never felt worried about my salvation, and I haven’t studied it - so I don’t want to commit.
“Let us consider a garden with out the fall..How would you understand Holiness with out something to compare it to. ..namely evil
How would you understand the wrath of God and the Justice of God in that garden ..if there was no sin “
When we see God more clearly, we will have no problem understanding Holiness. We will understand that it is an active positive, not a lack of the negative. The Fall was not a leap upward, regardless of Mormon teaching - not that you are Mormon, but I remember living in Utah and being told the Fall was a Fall Upwards.
We fell, and we fell down. We weren’t pushed, but fell on our own and fell DOWN.
I agree with you in that it’s far more productive simply to remain in Him and continue to grow by His work in us.
If somebody falls out of fellowship, they aren’t getting away with anything, they simply are placing themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time to perform by His Plan, so they simply are leaving a reward on the shelf, which they won’t inherit or be rewarded at the bema seat judgment.
We only have this life prior to the first death to grow in Christ, so that when He administers awards at the bema seat, we receive them for all eternity. I remember studying a doctrine on this note, where it is only prior to the first death, that our human spirit and soul is able to be cleansed and tested and produce works which are later rewarded at the bema seat. The consequences of those crowns are eternal, so it is in our best interest not to grieve the Holy Spirit or fail to abide in Him.
One thing I can consistently note about each and every sin I have ever committed or will commit, is that it was never done by remaining in Him. They always occur when I am out of fellowship. So a great mechanism to check ourselves when tempted, is to double check and make sure we are in fellowship with Him, and place things in His hands and decide and act through faith in Him. He’s always a winning solution.
Here we have 3 basic schools of OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved). One holds to Final Perseverance, the P in the Calvinistic Tulip, that recognizes salvific faith is of a certain quality, one that overall follows the Lord, (Jn. 10:27) with the defining characteristic of His life being that of Spirit led and enabled righteousness. (1Jn). And so this holds that the elect will not die in apostasy. If one does, even after having lived a whole life which testifies to salvation, he will be considered as one that was never one of the elect, if i understand their usually response.
Another position recognizes true faith is manifested by enduring fruit, but holds that if a real believer does fall into sin, and does not repent, God will take him home early, and which sees 1Cor. 11:29-32 supporting that, though v. 32 infers that if chastisement did not bring repentance, we would be condemned with the world.
A variant of this, and which is now more prevalent than before, is one that holds that as long as one believes Jesus promise to give eternal life to those that believe, then they are saved, even if they live like the devil, as God is not an Indian giver. And that, as all sin, there is no line drawn that in which a believer would be disqualified as having saving faith. Thus Christian fornicators are exempt from such warnings as 1Cor. 6:10.
For OSAS, i think the best texts are not those which promise eternal life to those who believe, as this faith is qualified as being salvific by its evidential fruit, (Heb. 6:9) Rather they are texts which affirm Gods intent to preserve, such as John 18:9: “That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.” And to which Rm. 8:28-30 concur.
In opposition are the manner texts which at least warn of forfeiting, by clear act(s) of denial of faith, what was appropriated in the profession of faith, such as,
(Gal 5:1-4) “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. {2} Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. {3} For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. {4} Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
That these were believers is clear, as 4:6 testifies, and you do not stand fast in in liberty nor do you fall from grace unless you first got there, and to as to be in grace is salvfic, to fall from it intimates the opposite. But primarily, for OSAS to hold, a valid explanation has to be evidenced that allows one to be saved even if Christ shall profit or gain them nothing, and is become of NONE effect.
I will leave Heb. 6 alone, as that is more debatable, but 10:24-39 sounds rather ominous:
(Heb 10:24-31) “And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: {25} Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. {26} For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, {27} But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. {28} He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: {29} Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? {30} For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. {31} It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”...
(Heb 10:39) “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”
The subjects here again are believers, and the book is dealing with believers who are being pressured to go back into Judaism. To draw back is to go into perdition. and be devoured by firely ind8gnation as an adversary of God (cf. 2:thes. 1:8,9). Believers are even more accountable due to realizing so great salvation (2:3) and enlightenment.
In addition, we have the texts which warn that no fornicator, etc, shall inherit eternal life, but that such shall have their part in the Lake of fire. (1Cor. 6:9,10; Rv. 21:8)
i did not intend to post this long, and now it is really later. Good night.
His Holiness is comprised of His Righteousness facing His Justice, similar to the 2 cherubim on top the Mercy Seat on the Arc of the Covenant.
Very easy to grasp without good or evil.
From a fallen perspective, we view His Perfect Justice as demanding our Righteousness, so we anticipate a fiery indignation. Likewise, our injustice perceives His Perfect Righteousness will demand Perfect Justice. That’s one reason why when we sin, we frequently appeal to His Grace, because we don’t want to be disciplined. Once we reface Him and confess our sins, He forgives us and remembers them no more, although our scarred souls have a tendency to feel guilty if we don;t return to Him through faith in Christ.
I don't deny that mingling can occur, but there is no comparison of the objects used in veneration and prayers of intercession by Filipino Catholics and the substitution of the names of Catholics saints for the names of African animist spirits by voodoo practitioners.
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