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To: MarkBsnr

I know I don’t do this often (;o)), but I will have to disagree with you here on a most important point. The Holy Spirit per Ephesians 1:14 is given as an “earnest” of our inheritance. That word means:

1) an earnest
a) money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the full amount will subsequently be paid

It does not imply at all that it is a “first installment”. When you buy a house for example, you put down earnest money when you make an offer. This tells the seller that you have some “meat in the game” and intend to buy the house once all agreed conditions are met. If you back out of the deal, you don’t get that money back and the seller COULD take you to court and force the sale. When you buy something using lay-away (do people still have that?) or something financed you make installment payments. If you stop making payments, you don’t get the item or the item is reposessed.

Scripture makes it clear in several places that the Holy Spirit is sealed within us “Until the day of redemption”. At no place does it say we can break that seal and since, we obtain the promise of eternal life by God’s grace through faith, we are held by him in his hand and he will never cast us out or lose us. We are saved by grace and that same grace keeps us saved.

Now did anyone ever lose the Holy Spirit? Yes, but it is only spoken of in the Old Testament. Where God’s spirit came and went. David prayed for God not to take his spirit from him. Nowhere in the New Testament after the sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us on the cross are we told this happens. In fact, we are told numerous times that it is a sealed deal. See also:

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

2Cr 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2Cr 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So, I don’t know where the idea came from that the Holy Spirit given to us as an earnest, comforter, teacher is just a “first installment” of our salvation, like a lay-away, but it is not right.


8,087 posted on 02/02/2010 7:06:24 PM PST by boatbums
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To: boatbums

Here we have 3 basic schools of OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved). One holds to Final Perseverance, the P in the Calvinistic Tulip, that recognizes salvific faith is of a certain quality, one that overall follows the Lord, (Jn. 10:27) with the defining characteristic of His life being that of Spirit led and enabled righteousness. (1Jn). And so this holds that the elect will not die in apostasy. If one does, even after having lived a whole life which testifies to salvation, he will be considered as one that was never one of the elect, if i understand their usually response.

Another position recognizes true faith is manifested by enduring fruit, but holds that if a real believer does fall into sin, and does not repent, God will take him home early, and which sees 1Cor. 11:29-32 supporting that, though v. 32 infers that if chastisement did not bring repentance, we would be condemned with the world.

A variant of this, and which is now more prevalent than before, is one that holds that as long as one believes Jesus promise to give eternal life to those that believe, then they are saved, even if they live like the devil, as God is not an Indian giver. And that, as all sin, there is no line drawn that in which a believer would be disqualified as having saving faith. Thus Christian fornicators are exempt from such warnings as 1Cor. 6:10.

For OSAS, i think the best texts are not those which promise eternal life to those who believe, as this faith is qualified as being salvific by its evidential fruit, (Heb. 6:9) Rather they are texts which affirm Gods intent to preserve, such as John 18:9: “That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.” And to which Rm. 8:28-30 concur.

In opposition are the manner texts which at least warn of forfeiting, by clear act(s) of denial of faith, what was appropriated in the profession of faith, such as,

(Gal 5:1-4) “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. {2} Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. {3} For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. {4} Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”

That these were believers is clear, as 4:6 testifies, and you do not stand fast in in liberty nor do you fall from grace unless you first got there, and to as to be in grace is salvfic, to fall from it intimates the opposite. But primarily, for OSAS to hold, a valid explanation has to be evidenced that allows one to be saved even if Christ shall profit or gain them nothing, and is become of NONE effect.

I will leave Heb. 6 alone, as that is more debatable, but 10:24-39 sounds rather ominous:

(Heb 10:24-31) “And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: {25} Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. {26} For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, {27} But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. {28} He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: {29} Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? {30} For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. {31} It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”...

(Heb 10:39) “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

The subjects here again are believers, and the book is dealing with believers who are being pressured to go back into Judaism. To draw back is to go into perdition. and be devoured by firely ind8gnation as an adversary of God (cf. 2:thes. 1:8,9). Believers are even more accountable due to realizing so great salvation (2:3) and enlightenment.

In addition, we have the texts which warn that no fornicator, etc, shall inherit eternal life, but that such shall have their part in the Lake of fire. (1Cor. 6:9,10; Rv. 21:8)

i did not intend to post this long, and now it is really later. Good night.


8,098 posted on 02/02/2010 8:15:27 PM PST by daniel1212 (Pro 25:13 As the cold of snow in the time of harvest, so is a faithful messenger [frozen chosen])
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