Posted on 01/04/2010 10:43:57 AM PST by GonzoII
When I was in college, I journeyed to Cologne, Germany and visited the city's glorious cathedral. I was a Protestant at the time, but I remember being amazed that people had been building this cathedral for so many centuries. It is one of the greatest Gothic churches of all time.
(Excerpt) Read more at cantuar.blogspot.com ...
You have to say it like the Church Lady, “agents of SSSSSsssssatan.” There, that is better.
What is the punishment for libel against God’s friends? The Three Wise Men are most certainly among the elect. “Saved” as it were.
May Gaspar, Melchior, and Balthazar find humor in your insult. Maybe you should ask the baby Jesus about the veracity of the story, when the visit occurred, and who they were? WWBJD Of course His Church has handed down the “rest of the story” that is introduced in the Gospel of Matthew.
“May Gaspar, Melchior, and Balthazar find humor in your insult. Maybe you should ask the baby Jesus about the veracity of the story, when the visit occurred, and who they were?”
Jesus isn’t a baby anymore. and Matthew answers those questions. But thanks anyway.
“According to the Gospel account, the wise men both worshipped Jesus and obeyed God. Doesn't sound like an agent of Satan.”
They were also astrologers, a practice condemned by God (Deut. 18) and they also obeyed Herod (Matt. 2:8).
“So they went to the capital of Israel. That's reasonable”
They were led by a “star”, not to the child Jesus but to Jerusalem and Herod. (Matt.2:2) Reasonable? Why, if this “star” was able to lead them from Jerusalem to Bethlehem? (Matt. 2:9).
“So they asked the king (according to Scripture God's chosen civil authority).”
Herod was not chosen by God to be king, being an Edomite, a people condemned by God as wicked, (Mal. 1:4) and not of the line of David or tribe of Judah.
“Furthermore, do you really think Satan would need some out of country folks coming from a far distance asking directions to discover out what all the chief scribes and priests already in Jerusalem already knew?”
What Satan needed was not the point. That's akin to asking if Satan needed Herod to do his killing for him.
The chief priests, etc. knew the where by prophecy (Matt. 2:4-6) but the when Herod learned from the astrologers and the star's appearance. (Matt. 2:7)
By this time Jesus was living in a house (Matt. 2:11) so the depictions of wise men visiting a babe in a manger just aren't so. According to Luke 1&2 it was the shepherds who visited Jesus in the manger and it was angels that made the announcements of events connected with Jesus’ birth, no stars involved.
“A bank robber asked a little old blue-haired woman how to get to First National Bank. He then went there and robbed it. The little old blue-haired woman was an accomplice or agent of the bank robber.”
Your analogy doesn't fit the account. The magi, the astrologers were not little old ladies, they were condemned to death under the Law given by God. (Lev.19 and Deut. 18).
And if one puts the very best face on their actions it would be that they were unwitting accomplices and really believed Herod the Thug wanted to worship another king of the Jews, especially one not of his family.
Had they not been warned by God not to return to Herod (Matt. 2:12) they would have had been able to give him the exact location of the house where Jesus lived.
Herod sent the astrologers to Bethlehem (Matt. 2:8) and the star led them to Jesus. (Matt. 2:9).
Thus a close examination of the account makes clear who and what these wise men were and who they were serving.
Jesus is a baby every Christmas, and His mother is the Spirit of Christmas. They ask us to contemplate the mysteries anew every year. That is the beauty of the liturgical calendar. There is a season for everything. For those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, there is much to be learned.
Jesus is a baby every Christmas, and His mother is the Spirit of Christmas. They ask us to contemplate the mysteries anew every year. That is the beauty of the liturgical calendar. There is a season for everything. For those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, there is much to be learned.
“For those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, there is much to be learned.”
So true, so true.
The “Three Wise Men” story is just one of many false notions surrounding Christmas. Even the date of the Messiah’s birth is likely all wrong—He was probably born at the end of September, though He was conceived about Dec. 25 around 3 or 4 BC (so I celerate Christmas as the day of His incarnation).
Myrrh is used in burial. A representation of The Child Jesus’ impeneding sacrifice and death for us.
Yeah..., just continuing the joking around with that other FReeper... :-)
Adding legend to the Nativity Account turns it into legend. Uncovering the actual history of the events surrounding the birth of the Messiah only reveals the veracity of it. So I say stick to the Gospel and historical records and ditch the traditions, warm and fuzzy though they may be.
Jesus is a baby every Christmas, and His mother is the Spirit of Christmas. They ask us to contemplate the mysteries anew every year.
Well.., I would say that people better be considering, instead, the "Lion of Judah" -- because He's "coming back for bear!".... LOL....
At Christmas -- a lot of people think about a cute little baby Jesus or a very nice man who said nice things to people, was uplifting, and healed a bunch of people...
What people really need to remember is that there's this "big bad Jewish fellow" out there, who's showing up soon, sorta unexpected, and he's "looking for bear" and is gonna open up "the biggest can of whoop-ass" you've ever seen in your life, on a bunch of people here on earth. LOL...
However, many fail to understand -- but they will "understand" when the Messiah of Israel returns to this earth, sets His feet on the soil of this globe, and sets up the ruling authority -- the one-world government -- that He puts into place over all nations, including the United States.
He's the Messiah of Israel, that He is coming back to earth, to set up a one-world government, with His headquarters in Jerusalem, ruling over all the nations of the world, including the United States and will rule over all who are still alive (from who are living right now today) -- and that He will definitely scrap the Constitution of the United States and make Himself the supreme ruler over all that we do.
The "day of reckoning" is coming for all of those who are trying to take over the world and put it totally under their control in an evil one-world empire. And they do admit that they want a one-world government -- their government, not God's...
When the Messiah of Israel comes back to this earth to set up His one-world government and subject all the nations of the world to His authority and rule -- He'll be making real short work of any of those yahoos...
And you can be sure that He will be utterly destroying anything to do with any of these yahoos, since whatever they say and do is a total perversion of anything to do with the Messiah of Israel.
And for sure -- we all, in this world, need the Messiah of Israel back, here on earth -- to destroy this coming one-world government and to install His own one-world government in its place.
I'm looking forward to the coming Kingdom on earth and the one-world government that the Messiah of Israel will be setting up, after He destroys, by His own hand, the present and evil one-world government that we see forming right now.
Isaiah 9:6-7
For unto us a Child is born.
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
A couple of commentaries:
CHAP. IX.—PROFESSIONS OF SOME KINDS ALLIED TO IDOLATRY. OF ASTROLOGY IN PARTICULAR. TERTULLIAN
“But Magi and astrologers came from the east.” We know the mutual alliance of magic and astrology. The interpreters of the stars, then, were the first to announce Christ's birth the first to present Him “gifts.”
And:
Catholic Encyclopedia: Magi
“The philosophy of the Magi, erroneous though it was, led them to the journey by which they were to find Christ. Magian astrology postulated a heavenly counterpart to complement man's earthly self and make up the complete human personality. His “double” (the fravashi of the Parsi) developed together with every good man until death united the two. The sudden appearance of a new and brilliant star suggested to the Magi the birth of an important person. They came to adore him — i.e., to acknowledge the Divinity of this newborn King (vv. 2, 8, 11).”
The wise men were astrologers and this was condemned under God's Law. (Deut.18 and Lev. 19)
“Again, you're making a judgment that is not supported by scripture, either that the Magi were astrologers or that they were objects of the Law given to the Jews. There is no indication they were Jews and, therefore, subject to the Law, assuming they had done anything wrong, which, in the account, isn't at all evident.”
No practicer of magic, etc. was allowed inside the nation, either Jews or anyone else. (try reading the Law at Deut. 18:10-12).
“Poor count-your-change. Have you never read, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.” Romans 13:1. This included Herod.”
Paul's words do not contradict what I said about Herod.
Peter had said that when man's orders conflict with God's they would only obey God. (Acts 5:29) and Jesus said the rulers had a sphere of control that belonged to them as in Caesar's things to Caesar so Paul's words must be considered with that in mind.
Romans 13:1 uses the Greek word “TETAGMNETAI” from “tasso”, Strong's 5021, which has the meaning of setting in a paticular order or relative position and NOT of placing in authority as Caesar did Herod.
As J.W. McGarvey said in his “A Commentary on the Acts of the Apostles” concerning Romans 13:1 and tetagmentai eisin:
“The word in question is a generic term, having no single word in English to fully represent it. Its generic sense is best represented by our phrase, set in order. In its various specific applications, however, we have single terms which accurately represent it. Thus, when Jesus etaxato set in order a certain mountain in Galilee as a place to meet his disciples, or the Jews in Rome taxamenoi set in order a day to meet Paul,} we best express the idea by appointed. But when Paul[at Romans 13:1]says of civil rulers that “the existing authorities tetagmenai eisin were set in order by God,” he does not intend to affirm that God had appointed those rulers, but merely asserts his general providence in their existence and arrangement. The idea is best expressed in English by using the phrase set in order, or by saying they were arranged by God.”
(See also Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicaon of the New Testament under ‘tasso’)
Thus Paul at Romans 13:1 was affirming that secular rulers like Herod enjoyed their positions by God's allowance, not His approval, for His own purposes.
“Your lack of exegesis, novel and ad hoc definitions, inability to distinguish between popular and historical accounts, and special pleading pretty much says it all.”
When all else fails....... but have good day anyhow.
“Well.., I would say that people better be considering, instead, the “Lion of Judah” — because He’s “coming back for bear!”.... LOL....”
Time to put away the baby pictures!
“Jesus is a baby every Christmas, and His mother is the Spirit of Christmas. They ask us to contemplate the mysteries anew every year.”
ahhhh no, blackpacific, he’s not, she’s not, and they don’t.
Lets all go looking for the bones of 3 people born in the 1600's, who's life we know nothing about or where they even lived...not too likely to find the actual bones....
The problem with your view of the Second Coming is that you have it occurring long before the Final Judgement of doom. The two events are simultaneous. What you are setting yourself up for is the deception of the Anti-Christ, who will come as a “m”essiah, deceiving if possible, even the elect. As a Catholic it is understood that there will be four last things; death, judgement, heaven, and hell. But not everyone will necessarily see death before the final buzzer.
Then all things will be made new. A new heaven and a new Earth. This Vale of Tears, Purgatory, Limbo, and any other transitional state will no longer be necessary.
There is tremendous power in the concept of God entering His creation as an infant. Helpless in the eyes of the world. What the adults did surrounding his entry was remarkable. When Joseph received angels in the middle of the night, it meant that he could not wait until morning to move. The motion of the Holy Family out of Israel could have been something for the Moussad(sp?).
Happy feast of the Epiphany! May the saintly wise men who were the first to honor the Messiah guide us on our way!
What you are setting yourself up for is the deception of the Anti-Christ, who will come as a “m”essiah, deceiving if possible, even the elect.
The Antichrist may be fooling a lot of people, but those who know the Bible, he ain't gonna fool... LOL...
I mean, first of all, the two witnesses in Jerusalem are going to be the biggest "pain in the butt" to the Antichrist and he can't do a thing about it for 1,260 days, until the midpoint of the Tribulation.
So, just listen to the two witnesses in Jerusalem and they will be giving y'all an earful about the Antichrist... :-)
Secondly, it's the Antichrist who signs the seven-year peace agreement with Israel (or else imposes it upon them, one way or another). It's that "marker" that is the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation as outlined in the prophecies of the Book of Daniel. That's another marker for people who know the Bible.
And then, thirdly, it's going to be mighty hard for people to miss the Antichrist in the Temple in Jerusalem declaring himself to be God. You'll have to be hiding under a rock somewhere to miss that one. That happens at the 1,260 day mark of the Tribulation.
Then, fourthly, what goes along with that, is you're going to find two dead bodies laying in the streets of Jerusalem for about three days (about 3-1/2, I think it says) and then, they will be raised up from the dead, after lying in the streets for all that time, and raised up in the sight of the whole world.
Then, fifthly, it will be mighty hard to miss the three angels in Revelation, giving the everlasting gospel to everyone in the whole world, with another one of them warning directly all the inhabitants of the globe to not take the mark of the beast and not engage in worshipping him.
NOW..., if someone -- after all that -- fails to understand who the Antichrist is -- well then, they're just too stupid to live... LOL...
... there will be four last things; death, judgement, heaven, and hell. But not everyone will necessarily see death before the final buzzer.
Then all things will be made new. A new heaven and a new Earth. This Vale of Tears, Purgatory, Limbo, and any other transitional state will no longer be necessary.
Well, you're missing the "real biggie" here... that fits in between Jesus, the Messiah of Israel returning to this earth and setting up His headquarters in Jerusalem -- and -- with the Great White Throne judgement (the last and final judgment) at the end, in Revelation 20.
It's the 1,000 year Kingdom, on this earth, during which time the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob fulfills all the promises to Israel, that He has given them. They shall rule over all the nations of the world.
After that is completed and the Great White Throne judgement is done, in Revelation 20, then all things are made new and we all (who are written in the Lamb's book of life) go into "eternity" -- of which we're not really told a whole lot about, but we'll find out.
The thousand year reign has already happened, it was called Christian Europe. From the time of Constantine to the tragedy of the Reformation is roughly 1000 years, give or take a few hundred.
The thousand year reign has already happened, it was called Christian Europe. From the time of Constantine to the tragedy of the Reformation is roughly 1000 years, give or take a few hundred.
The only trouble with that is that I didn't see the Antichrist stand in the Holy Place, declaring himself to be God (as Jesus said, in referring to the abominatino of desolation in Daniel), and I didn't see the two witnesses, prophesying for 1,260 days and then dead in the streets of Jerusalem, laying there untouched for 3-1/w days, and then raised up in the sight of the whole world and taken up to heaven. And I didn't see the three angels, one of which declares the everlasting Gospel to the entire world to every person living at the time, and I didn't see the other angel, giving the warning to not worship the Antichrist and not take the mark of the Beast.
And I didn't see Jesus, the Messiah of Israel return and set up His rule in Jerusalem and Him seated on the Throne of David, and Israel ruling over all the nations of the world, and I didn't see the Antichrist and the False Prophet thrown directly in the lake of Fire, and I didn't see Satan bound up for the 1,000 years so that he couldn't deceive the nations any longer during that time, and I didn't see the end of all war, with full peace on the earth and none of the nations making war or learning war any more, and I didn't see the rebellion at the end of the 1,000 year Kingdom where all those millions rebelling against the Messiah of Israel, march on Jerusalem and I didn't see the fire of God coming down from Heaven devouring them. And lastly, at the end of the 1,000 year Kingdom, I didn't see the Great White Throne Judgement, in which all those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life are cast into the lake of fire... and lastly, I don't see that we are currently in the "eternal state" and that I have my new and glorified body...
From all that, I would say you've got the wrong time period... :-)
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