Finding Gog

Those who labor to understand the nuances of the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 quickly identify two major puzzles. One is the timing of the battle and the other is the identity of Gog, from Magog. Suffice it to say here that almost no scholar, certainly none I’m aware of, believes the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 has already taken place. Some believe it will occur just before the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week, while others believe Ezekiel is actually describing the Battle of Armageddon, which would put it at the end of the Great Tribulation. But all place it sometime in our future.

In my opinion, there are several reasons why Ezekiel 38 can’t be part of the Armageddon scenario. First, only some nations are involved in Ezekiel 38. For example, Saudi Arabia and Western Europe are said to be on the sidelines observing and others you would expect to see, like Egypt and Jordan, are not mentioned at all, although both appear later on. But Zechariah 12:3 says that in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon all the nations of the Earth will come against Jerusalem.

Second, how is Israel going to burn the left over weapons for 7 years as Ezekiel 39:9 indicates unless there are 7 years left in which to burn them? Rev. 21:24. says the nations will walk by the light of the New Jerusalem in the Millennium, so they won’t need fuel for energy then. And then you have Ezekiel 38:11 telling us that Israel will be a peaceful and unsuspecting people when the Moslem coalition strikes. Could that be possible near the end of the Great Tribulation when all the nations are gathering to attack? I don’t think so.

But most importantly, Daniel’s 70th week can’t start until Israel is back in covenant with God and the battle of Ezekiel 38 is what causes the covenant to be re-instated. (Ezek. 39:22) Armageddon comes at the end of Daniel’s 70th week, not the beginning.

As for Gog and Magog, the first thing to note is that while Magog is listed in Genesis 10, Gog is not. The list of 70 names in Genesis 10 is often called the Table of Nations because each of the men named there was the original ancestor of an ethnic group that grew to become a nation of people. For instance, Magog was the 2nd son of Japeth, one of Noah’s three sons, and bore the children who in time became known to the ancient world as the Scythians. They lived in central Asia and are believed to be the forefathers of today’s Russians. Many historical references support this view. For example, Josephus Flavius wrote “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.” And in some ancient Arabic documents, the Great Wall of China is called the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. It was built to keep the Scythians out of China.

So while the Russian people of today are likely descended from Magog, there is no such biological connection for Gog to either Magog or any other ethnic group. There is an unrelated mention of a man named Gog, a grandson of Reuben, in 1 Chronicles 5:4 but there doesn’t seem to be any connection between him and the land of Magog either. Clearly, while Magog refers to the millions of his descendants in today’s Russia, Gog remains a single individual.

Some say he’s a king or leader, and in a real sense I think that’s true but I don’t believe he’s of the human variety. The time spanned by his three appearances in scripture make that impossible.

The first one is in the first verse of Amos 7, but you have to be reading Amos from the Septuigent translation to see it. There, Gog is identified as a king, but of a swarm of locusts. To further shroud him in mystery Proverbs 30:27 states that locusts have no king, and observers of locust swarms agree that no obvious leader directs them, as a queen would direct a hive of bees for example. The swarm of locusts led by Gog in Amos 7:1-2 was symbolic of a judgment that was to come upon the Northern Kingdom, but the Lord relented because of Amos’ intercession.

(This hint also lends insight to another appearance of locusts, by the way. I’m referring to the one in Revelation 9, where a swarm of locusts comes out of the Abyss to afflict those on Earth who lack the seal of God on their foreheads. These locusts have a king named Abaddon in the Hebrew or Appolyon in the Greek. Here again, the Proverbs passage would indicate that these locusts are of supernatural origin like the ones in Amos 7, not ordinary locusts.)

The next time Gog’s mentioned is in Ezekiel 38:1, where he is called by name as the leader of a coalition of what are now primarily Moslem nations attacking Israel. His final mention comes from the Book of Revelation where he again leads the people from Magog against the Lord’s army at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:8).

Even if you’re among those who place the battle of Ezekiel 38 at the end of the Great Tribulation, the span of time between Gog’s last two biblical appearances is at least 1000 years, and while I believe that some born in that era will have long life spans, there isn’t any indication that natural humans born before the Millennium begins will live to see its end. This is especially true of God’s enemies, since all surviving unbelievers are removed from Earth at the beginning of our Lord’s reign.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that Gog is a supernatural figure. The Bible clearly states that behind the human seats of government stand supernatural figures manipulating the thoughts and actions of the world’s leaders. These figures are in Satan’s employ, helping in his effort to wrest ownership of Planet Earth from its Creator. Gog is at least the supernatural figure behind the throne of Russia, and perhaps is even Satan’s counterpart to the Archangel Michael, who commands the Lord’s armies.

In Daniel 10:13 Michael is identified as one of the Lord’s chief princes who in 536 BC came to Daniel’s aid in a supernatural struggle with the Prince of Persia, a nation barely emerging on the world scene having conquered Babylon just three years earlier. At its conclusion Michael told Daniel that he’d soon be battling the Prince of Greece, a nation that didn’t even exist at the time. In Daniel 12:1 we’re told he’ll protect Israel at the end of the age. And in Rev 12:7 he’s seen leading the angelic host in a great battle in heaven when Satan is defeated there and cast down to Earth at the outset of the Great Tribulation. Michael is clearly a supernatural warrior leaping across the pages of history in defense of the Lord’s interests. It makes sense that Satan would have a military commander leading his forces as well, since everything he does seems to mirror the actions of his Creator. With his multiple mentions in Scripture and the long span of time between appearances, Gog could easily be this commander.

Only time will tell if this view is correct. But one of the great advantages of living in our day is that we won’t have long to wait till we find out. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah. 09-12-09

THIS IS RICH.

Yet again the REPLACEMENTARIAN et al perspective brazenly flashes its UNRUBBERIZED BIBLICAL IGNORANCE all about.

UNRUBBERIZED SCRIPTURE prophetically notes that DAMASCUS WILL BE UTTERLY DESTROYED AND NEVER TO BE LIVED IN AGAIN.

And here we see the same sort of RUBBER DICTIONARY at work that plagues the EPLACEMENTARIAN et al's perspective about

ALMIGHTY OMNISCIENT GOD'S EVERLASTING PROMISES TO THE CHILDREN OF JACOB . . . TO REMAIN IN FORCE AS LONG AS THERE ARE STARS . . . THAT EVEN IF THE HILLS AND MOUNTAINS JUMP ABOUT, GOD'S PROMISES WOULD REMAIN FAITHFUL TO THE CHILDREN OF JACOB.

Clearly some of the vocabulary in all such prophecies are simply NOT IN the REPLACEMENTARIAN et al's RUBBER DICTIONARIES

they are there with totally opposite meaning or unrelated meanings.

It is nice of them, though, to so brazenly demonstrate their weak vocabularies for all to see.

Here are some representative Scriptures that the cluelessness of the idiotic REPLACEMENTARIAN et al's perspective seems to have been left out of their RUBBER BIBLES . . . or irrationally pretends that most all such happened about 70AD:

Jeremiah 33:19 THE MESSAGE VERSION
God's Message to Jeremiah: "God says, 'If my covenant with day and my covenant with night ever fell apart so that day and night became haphazard and you never knew which was coming and when, then and only then would my covenant with my servant David fall apart and his descendants no longer rule. The same goes for the Levitical priests who serve me. Just as you can't number the stars in the sky nor measure the sand on the seashore, neither will you be able to account for the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who serve me.'"
Daniel 8:8
"Then the billy goat swelled to an enormous size. At the height of its power its immense horn broke off and four other big horns sprouted in its place, pointing to the four points of the compass. And then from one of these big horns another horn sprouted. It started small, but then grew to an enormous size, facing south and east—toward lovely Palestine. The horn grew tall, reaching to the stars, the heavenly army, and threw some of the stars to the earth and stomped on them. It even dared to challenge the power of God, Prince of the Celestial Army! And then it threw out daily worship and desecrated the Sanctuary. As judgment against their sin, the holy people of God got the same treatment as the daily worship. The horn cast God's Truth aside. High-handed, it took over everything and everyone.
Joel 3:15
"The sky turns black, sun and moon go dark, stars burn out. God roars from Zion, shouts from Jerusalem. Earth and sky quake in terror. But God is a safe hiding place, a granite safe house for the children of Israel. Then you'll know for sure that I'm your God, Living in Zion, my sacred mountain. Jerusalem will be a sacred city, posted: 'no trespassing.'
Amos 9:1
[ Israel Thrown into a Sieve ] I saw my Master standing beside the altar at the shrine. He said: "Hit the tops of the shrine's pillars, make the floor shake. The roof's about to fall on the heads of the people, and whoever's still alive, I'll kill. No one will get away, no runaways will make it. If they dig their way down into the underworld, I'll find them and bring them up. If they climb to the stars, I'll find them and bring them down. If they hide out at the top of Mount Carmel, I'll find them and bring them back. If they dive to the bottom of the ocean, I'll send Dragon to swallow them up. If they're captured alive by their enemies, I'll send Sword to kill them. I've made up my mind to hurt them, not help them."
Obadiah 1:2
"Listen to this, Edom: I'm turning you to a no-account, the runt of the godless nations, despised. You thought you were so great, perched high among the rocks, king of the mountain, Thinking to yourself, 'Nobody can get to me! Nobody can touch me!' Think again. Even if, like an eagle, you hang out on a high cliff-face, Even if you build your nest in the stars, I'll bring you down to earth." God's sure Word.
Isaiah 30:23 God will provide rain for the seeds you sow. The grain that grows will be abundant. Your cattle will range far and wide. Oblivious to war and earthquake, the oxen and donkeys you use for hauling and plowing will be fed well near running brooks that flow freely from mountains and hills. Better yet, on the Day God heals his people of the wounds and bruises from the time of punishment, moonlight will flare into sunlight, and sunlight, like a whole week of sunshine at once, will flood the land.
Isaiah 51:1
[ Committed to Seeking God ] "Listen to me, all you who are serious about right living and committed to seeking God. Ponder the rock from which you were cut, the quarry from which you were dug. Yes, ponder Abraham, your father, and Sarah, who bore you. Think of it! One solitary man when I called him, but once I blessed him, he multiplied. Likewise I, God, will comfort Zion, comfort all her mounds of ruins. I'll transform her dead ground into Eden, her moonscape into the garden of God, A place filled with exuberance and laughter, thankful voices and melodic songs.
Isaiah 60:8
[ What's That We See in the Distance? ] "What's that we see in the distance, a cloud on the horizon, like doves darkening the sky? It's ships from the distant islands, the famous Tarshish ships Returning your children from faraway places, loaded with riches, with silver and gold, And backed by the name of your God, The Holy of Israel, showering you with splendor.
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Foreigners will rebuild your walls, and their kings assist you in the conduct of worship. When I was angry I hit you hard. It's my desire now to be tender. Your Jerusalem gates will always be open —open house day and night!— Receiving deliveries of wealth from all nations, and their kings, the delivery boys!
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Any nation or kingdom that doesn't deliver will perish; those nations will be totally wasted.
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The rich woods of Lebanon will be delivered —all that cypress and oak and pine— To give a splendid elegance to my Sanctuary, as I make my footstool glorious. The descendants of your oppressor will come bowing and scraping to you. All who looked down at you in contempt will lick your boots. They'll confer a title on you: City of God, Zion of The Holy of Israel.
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Not long ago you were despised refuse— out-of-the-way, unvisited, ignored. But now I've put you on your feet, towering and grand forever, a joy to look at! When you suck the milk of nations and the breasts of royalty, You'll know that I, God, am your Savior, your Redeemer, Champion of Jacob.
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I'll give you only the best—no more hand-me-downs! Gold instead of bronze, silver instead of iron, bronze instead of wood, iron instead of stones.
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I'll install Peace to run your country, make Righteousness your boss. There'll be no more stories of crime in your land, no more robberies, no more vandalism. You'll name your main street Salvation Way, and install Praise Park at the center of town.
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You'll have no more need of the sun by day nor the brightness of the moon at night. God will be your eternal light, your God will bathe you in splendor. Your sun will never go down, your moon will never fade. I will be your eternal light.
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Your days of grieving are over. All your people will live right and well, in permanent possession of the land. They're the green shoot that I planted, planted with my own hands to display my glory. The runt will become a great tribe, the weakling become a strong nation. I am God. At the right time I'll make it happen."
The irrational REPLACEMENTARIAN et al perspective would have us believe that God is a liar; or somehow forgot His promises just above . . . or that somehow they all happened in some alterd dimensional state in 70AD. What blasphemous idiocy! THE PLAIN UNRUBBERIZED BIBLICAL TRUTH IS, THOSE PROPHECIES FROM ISAIAH 60:8 ABOVE WERE NOT AT ALL FULILLED IN 70AD. They ARE FUTURE whether REPLACEMENTARIANS et al wish to agree with GOD ALMIGHTY, OR NOT.
Jeremiah 31:34-36 (The Message)
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33-34"This is the brand-new covenant that I will make with Israel when the time comes. I will put my law within them—write it on their hearts!—and be their God. And they will be my people. They will no longer go around setting up schools to teach each other about God. They'll know me firsthand, the dull and the bright, the smart and the slow. I'll wipe the slate clean for each of them. I'll forget they ever sinned!" God's Decree.
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If This Ordered Cosmos Ever Fell to Pieces 35God's Message, from the God who lights up the day with sun and
brightens the night with moon and stars,
Who whips the ocean into a billowy froth,
whose name is God-of-the-Angel-Armies:
36"If this ordered cosmos ever fell to pieces,
fell into chaos before me"—God's Decree—
"Then and only then might Israel fall apart
and disappear as a nation before me."
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Jeremiah 51:52
"I know, but trust me: The time is coming" —God's Decree— "When I will bring doom on her no-god idols, and all over this land her wounded will groan. Even if Babylon climbed a ladder to the moon and pulled up the ladder so that no one could get to her, That wouldn't stop me. I'd make sure my avengers would reach her." God's Decree.
Ezekiel 32:3
"'God, the Master, says: "'I'm going to throw my net over you [EGYPT]-—many nations will get in on this operation— and haul you out with my dragnet. I'll dump you on the ground out in an open field And bring in all the crows and vultures for a sumptuous carrion lunch. I'll invite wild animals from all over the world to gorge on your guts. I'll scatter hunks of your meat in the mountains and strew your bones in the valleys. The country, right up to the mountains, will be drenched with your blood, your blood filling every ditch and channel. When I blot you out, I'll pull the curtain on the skies and shut out the stars. I'll throw a cloud across the sun and turn off the moonlight. I'll turn out every light in the sky above you and put your land in the dark. Decree of God, the Master. I'll shake up everyone worldwide when I take you off captive to strange and far-off countries. I'll shock people with you. Kings will take one look and shudder. I'll shake my sword and they'll shake in their boots. On the day you crash, they'll tremble, thinking, "That could be me!"
Joel 2:28
[ The Sun Turning Black and the Moon Blood-Red ] "And that's just the beginning: After that— "I will pour out my Spirit on every kind of people: Your sons will prophesy, also your daughters. Your old men will dream, your young men will see visions. I'll even pour out my Spirit on the servants, men and women both. I'll set wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth below: Blood and fire and billowing smoke, the sun turning black and the moon blood-red, Before the Judgment Day of God, the Day tremendous and awesome. Whoever calls, 'Help, God!' gets help. On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be a great rescue—just as God said. Included in the survivors are those that God calls."

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This famous passage above from Joel answers the major REPLACEMENTARIAN SILLINESS AND ABSURDITY ABOUT "SOON" IN Mat 24 . . . regarding END TIMES EVENTS. Peter referred to this passage in Joel about events in Acts 2. YET, THE REST OF THE PASSAGE CLEARLY DID NOT HAPPEN IN ACTS 2 NOR IN 70AD. It's UTTER RUBBER HISTORY, RUBBER DICTIONARY AND RUBBER BIBLE AS WELL AS RUBBER ROOM BLASPHEMOUS INSANITY to think otherwise--MAKING GOD OUT TO BE A LIAR.

Psalm 136:4
Thank the miracle-working God, His love never quits. The God whose skill formed the cosmos, His love never quits. The God who laid out earth on ocean foundations, His love never quits. The God who filled the skies with light, His love never quits. The sun to watch over the day, His love never quits. Moon and stars as guardians of the night, His love never quits. The God who struck down the Egyptian firstborn, His love never quits. And rescued Israel from Egypt's oppression, His love never quits. Took Israel in hand with his powerful hand, His love never quits. Split the Red Sea right in half, His love never quits. Led Israel right through the middle, His love never quits. Dumped Pharaoh and his army in the sea, His love never quits. The God who marched his people through the desert, His love never quits. Smashed huge kingdoms right and left, His love never quits. Struck down the famous kings, His love never quits. Struck Sihon the Amorite king, His love never quits. Struck Og the Bashanite king, His love never quits. Then distributed their land as booty, His love never quits. Handed the land over to Israel. His love never quits.
Yet the REPLACEMENTARIANS et al would have us believe that God's Love for the children of JACOB--in direct opposition to God's EVERLASTING PROMISES . . . QUIT . . . AND HE TOSSED THEM IN THE TOILET. WHAT BLASPHEMY!
Isaiah 17:1
[ Damascus: A Pile of Dust and Rubble ] A Message concerning Damascus: "Watch this: Damascus undone as a city, a pile of dust and rubble! Her towns emptied of people. The sheep and goats will move in And take over the towns as if they owned them—which they will! Not a sign of a fort is left in Ephraim, not a trace of government left in Damascus. What's left of Aram? The same as what's left of Israel—not much." Decree of God-of-the-Angel-Armies.

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BLESSED BE THE UNRUBBERIZED WORD OF THE LORD.

If you can prove such from the Word of God, I’d be interested in the case you can make.

It has certainly been a while since I have been called upon to defend this as such, but I can hardly see how it can be avoided in the great prophets, especially Isaiah 40 onward, Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Jeremiah - And the minor prophets, Hosea especially, All relate the restoration of Israel in the last days, and speak specifically of the House of Joseph/Ephraim and the House of Judah (Note, the great houses, not the tribes) as being participatory in battles in the last days.

Furthermore, beside that major theme, the condition of Judah being blinded to Christ's coming by God is carried forward into the New Testament, and the argument can be made in the Prophecy that once the gospel is rejected by Judah it will be carried forward by Ephraim to the gentiles...

Further yet, It is inescapable that the two, Ephraim and Judah (the two Houses) will be made one in the hand of Messiah (Ez 37), and that seems to happen before the final battle (it seems to me that the Battle of Magog would be an opportune time) - As His two witnesses, both are deficient until that time. I thoroughly expect our Hebrew friends to teach us as much as we will teach them. The truth, it seems lies in BOTH.

Isaiah 11:13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

Old Testament

Leviticus 26:44-45 Restoration of Israel is unconditional.
Isaiah 11:11 Second restoration of the Jews.
Isaiah 26;20-27:1 Hiding the children of Israel, Satan's judgment.
Isaiah 27:12-13 The final regathering of Israel.
Jeremiah:30:4-8 The time of Jacobs troubles and the future restoration.
Jeremiah 30:18-24 Restoration of Jacob will take place in the latter days.
Jeremiah 31:35-37 The permanent nation of Israel.
Jeremiah 33:24-26 Unconditional covenant with Jacob's descendants.
Ezekiel 16:60-63 Unconditional everlasting covenant with Israel.
Ezekiel 37:1-28 Unconditional future Restoration of Israel, Armageddon in Ezekiel 38.
Hosea 11:9-10 Restoration of Israel from the West.
Joel 3:1-3 Restoration of Judah followed by Armageddon(?).
Amos 9:11 -15 Israel restored to the land.
Zechariah 8:7-8 Post-exile unconditional restoration of the Jews to Jerusalem and the land.
Zechariah 10 & 12 Future restoration of the Jews.
Zechariah 14 Armageddon(?) with the Jews in Jerusalem.

New Testament

Luke 21:24 Dispersion, the time of the Gentiles, and an END to the time of the Gentiles.
Romans 11:11 The Jews have not fallen.
Romans 11:17 Only some of the branches were broken off.
Romans 11:17 The wild olive (Ephraim, church) was grafted in among Judah(olive tree).
Romans 11:28 Jews are still elect.
Romans 11:29 Gods callings (of the Jews) is irrevocable.
Revelation 7:4-9 Speaks of the 12 tribes of Israel
Revelation 12:1-6 Speaks of Israel in the Christian era.
Revelation 15:3 Two songs, one for the Jews, and one for the Church.

While I have given you a few verses to chew on, I really hate to do so. I would rather discuss this in broad themes, as one can be accused of taking verses out of context.

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