Finding Gog

Rapturealert.com ^ | 09-12-09 | Jack Kelley

[GiovannaNicoletta]

(This is an update of a study I first posted in Nov. 2003)

Those who labor to understand the nuances of the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 quickly identify two major puzzles. One is the timing of the battle and the other is the identity of Gog, from Magog. Suffice it to say here that almost no scholar, certainly none I’m aware of, believes the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 has already taken place. Some believe it will occur just before the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week, while others believe Ezekiel is actually describing the Battle of Armageddon, which would put it at the end of the Great Tribulation. But all place it sometime in our future.

In my opinion, there are several reasons why Ezekiel 38 can’t be part of the Armageddon scenario. First, only some nations are involved in Ezekiel 38. For example, Saudi Arabia and Western Europe are said to be on the sidelines observing and others you would expect to see, like Egypt and Jordan, are not mentioned at all, although both appear later on. But Zechariah 12:3 says that in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon all the nations of the Earth will come against Jerusalem.

Second, how is Israel going to burn the left over weapons for 7 years as Ezekiel 39:9 indicates unless there are 7 years left in which to burn them? Rev. 21:24. says the nations will walk by the light of the New Jerusalem in the Millennium, so they won’t need fuel for energy then. And then you have Ezekiel 38:11 telling us that Israel will be a peaceful and unsuspecting people when the Moslem coalition strikes. Could that be possible near the end of the Great Tribulation when all the nations are gathering to attack? I don’t think so.

But most importantly, Daniel’s 70th week can’t start until Israel is back in covenant with God and the battle of Ezekiel 38 is what causes the covenant to be re-instated. (Ezek. 39:22) Armageddon comes at the end of Daniel’s 70th week, not the beginning.

As for Gog and Magog, the first thing to note is that while Magog is listed in Genesis 10, Gog is not. The list of 70 names in Genesis 10 is often called the Table of Nations because each of the men named there was the original ancestor of an ethnic group that grew to become a nation of people. For instance, Magog was the 2nd son of Japeth, one of Noah’s three sons, and bore the children who in time became known to the ancient world as the Scythians. They lived in central Asia and are believed to be the forefathers of today’s Russians. Many historical references support this view. For example, Josephus Flavius wrote “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.” And in some ancient Arabic documents, the Great Wall of China is called the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. It was built to keep the Scythians out of China.

So while the Russian people of today are likely descended from Magog, there is no such biological connection for Gog to either Magog or any other ethnic group. There is an unrelated mention of a man named Gog, a grandson of Reuben, in 1 Chronicles 5:4 but there doesn’t seem to be any connection between him and the land of Magog either. Clearly, while Magog refers to the millions of his descendants in today’s Russia, Gog remains a single individual.

Some say he’s a king or leader, and in a real sense I think that’s true but I don’t believe he’s of the human variety. The time spanned by his three appearances in scripture make that impossible.

The first one is in the first verse of Amos 7, but you have to be reading Amos from the Septuigent translation to see it. There, Gog is identified as a king, but of a swarm of locusts. To further shroud him in mystery Proverbs 30:27 states that locusts have no king, and observers of locust swarms agree that no obvious leader directs them, as a queen would direct a hive of bees for example. The swarm of locusts led by Gog in Amos 7:1-2 was symbolic of a judgment that was to come upon the Northern Kingdom, but the Lord relented because of Amos’ intercession.

(This hint also lends insight to another appearance of locusts, by the way. I’m referring to the one in Revelation 9, where a swarm of locusts comes out of the Abyss to afflict those on Earth who lack the seal of God on their foreheads. These locusts have a king named Abaddon in the Hebrew or Appolyon in the Greek. Here again, the Proverbs passage would indicate that these locusts are of supernatural origin like the ones in Amos 7, not ordinary locusts.)

The next time Gog’s mentioned is in Ezekiel 38:1, where he is called by name as the leader of a coalition of what are now primarily Moslem nations attacking Israel. His final mention comes from the Book of Revelation where he again leads the people from Magog against the Lord’s army at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:8).

Even if you’re among those who place the battle of Ezekiel 38 at the end of the Great Tribulation, the span of time between Gog’s last two biblical appearances is at least 1000 years, and while I believe that some born in that era will have long life spans, there isn’t any indication that natural humans born before the Millennium begins will live to see its end. This is especially true of God’s enemies, since all surviving unbelievers are removed from Earth at the beginning of our Lord’s reign.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that Gog is a supernatural figure. The Bible clearly states that behind the human seats of government stand supernatural figures manipulating the thoughts and actions of the world’s leaders. These figures are in Satan’s employ, helping in his effort to wrest ownership of Planet Earth from its Creator. Gog is at least the supernatural figure behind the throne of Russia, and perhaps is even Satan’s counterpart to the Archangel Michael, who commands the Lord’s armies.

In Daniel 10:13 Michael is identified as one of the Lord’s chief princes who in 536 BC came to Daniel’s aid in a supernatural struggle with the Prince of Persia, a nation barely emerging on the world scene having conquered Babylon just three years earlier. At its conclusion Michael told Daniel that he’d soon be battling the Prince of Greece, a nation that didn’t even exist at the time. In Daniel 12:1 we’re told he’ll protect Israel at the end of the age. And in Rev 12:7 he’s seen leading the angelic host in a great battle in heaven when Satan is defeated there and cast down to Earth at the outset of the Great Tribulation. Michael is clearly a supernatural warrior leaping across the pages of history in defense of the Lord’s interests. It makes sense that Satan would have a military commander leading his forces as well, since everything he does seems to mirror the actions of his Creator. With his multiple mentions in Scripture and the long span of time between appearances, Gog could easily be this commander.

Only time will tell if this view is correct. But one of the great advantages of living in our day is that we won’t have long to wait till we find out. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah. 09-12-09

[topcat54]

You, my friend, are ignoring the obvious analogy throughout scripture where Israel is called among other things: the fig tree, the branches of the vine, the olive tree. Usually when an analogy is made, its meaning stays consistent throughout. The two olive trees referring to the two witnesses is also an example.

My friend, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that every time the phrase "fig tree" is used in the Bible it is some oblique reference to national Israel, and in some cases futurist secular Israel.

That claim cannot be supported from the Bible.

The non sequiturs in roamer_1's post were apparent, e.g., "a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said. "

[Quix]

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

THANKS FOR YOUR PRAYER.

[Quix]

I think those verses have been ripped out entirely

from their RUBBER BIBLES.

[Quix]

EXCELLENT VERSES, OF COURSE.

Though . . .

—they aren’t in the REPLACEMENTARIANS et al RUBBER BIBLES
—if they were, the RUBBER LOGIC functions would render the verses neutered in the minds of the REPLACEMENTARIANS et al

[Quix]

Quite accurate, imho.

Though it would likely take a few trillion millenia for the water of even The Word to make a dent in some REPLACEMENTARIAN et al granite noggins.

[Quix]

I gather that God's obscuring their END TIMES/GREAT TRIBULATION DUTIES from satan also obscures them from . . . willfully blind and deaf REPLACEMENTARIANS et al. . . . Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm interesting correlation, there. XeniaSt, prophetic . . . Blogger et al . . . what is so mystifying about the obvious conclusion that they are witnessing of THE KING OF KINGS AND DOING BATTLE IN BEHALF OF HIS KINGDOM in incredibly traumatic and dark times enabled and protected ty His Spirit and angelic forces??? I'd have thought even a drunken slug could have realized that.

[Quix]

There are many texts that demonstrate secular Israel is not biblical Israel.

I have the count of them here:
0.00000000000000000000000000
[See laughing dog above]

[Quix]

don’t be one of those folks who confuses their interpretation of the Word of God with the Word of God itself.

---

That seems to be a major doctrine of the REPLACEMENTARIAN, A-MIL, POST-MIL UNFAITH.

DISPENSATIONALISTS fall prey to that MUCH LESS often.

[SentForth5]

Gog and Magog are geographic locations.
This battle will take place after the millennium, and there will no longer be flesh and blood bodies. This is a spiritual battle against those who still follow satan even after being correctly instructed during the millennium teaching. God fights this battle...won’t take Him ten minutes.

[Quix]

NOW, NOW,

Expecting an UNRUBBERIZED BIBLICAL ANSWER;

. . . an UNRUBBERY LOGICAL answer;

. . . an UNRUBBERIZED HISTORY, historically accurate answer . . .

from a REPLACEMENTARIAN, A-MIL, PRETERIST, POST-MIL perspective . . .

could readily be a sign of Alzheimer’s or other serious delusion.

[Quix]

Not me.

I don’t wonder what “Bible” they are reading at all.

It’s OBVIOUSLY a RUBBER one.

[Quix]

Goodness . . . a promised straight answer? This should be interesting. Getting popcorn.

[Quix]

I KNOW!
I KNOW!
I KNOW!
Preterists, A-mils, Post-mils,
REPLACEMENTARIANS
BELIEVE ADAMANTLY
THAT GOD ALMIGHTY
put the verses about
the fig tree
in those references
because
He was going to
include a recipe
for FIG NEWTONS.
HOWEVER, in His
diligence to
FORGET
all
HIS
ALMIGHTY, OMNISCIENT GOD
EVERLASTING PROMISES TO
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,
He forgot to
INCLUDE the Fig Newton
recipe, too.

I think REPLACEMENTARIANS et al call that the

INFALLIBLE DOCTRINE OF OMNISCIENT FORGETFULNESS.

/S

[Quix]

It does seem fairly clear that

ONE Gog/Magog war will be after the Millenium.

It seems somewhat clear that there will be one in the END TIMES before the millenium.

It kind of seems like God keeps Russia around as a bad guy to contrast God’s glory against.

[Marysecretary]

She’s done well enough with her scriptures. I doubt I could add anything more to it. Would you believe it if there were a thousand scriptures proving it. That would be doubtful.

[topcat54]

[topcat54]

She’s done well enough with her scriptures. I doubt I could add anything more to it. Would you believe it if there were a thousand scriptures proving it.

Just one, but that is one more than I have seen.

[boatbums]

Will you admit that your views on the one hundred and forty four thousand are not entirely from Scripture.

Not on yer life! Does your Bible not contain the verses quoted in post #303? How about you read them again, and tell me what you interpret them to mean concerning this strange group of people - unless you aren't allowed, then I guess we'll have to talk about something else.

[Quix]

At least a new gif.

Finally somewhere fitting to put the

REPLACEMENTARIAN et al

garbage that pretends to be rational notions.

[Quix]

Easily solved.

Replace the RUBBER BIBLE

with an authentic real Bible.