Finding Gog

Those who labor to understand the nuances of the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 quickly identify two major puzzles. One is the timing of the battle and the other is the identity of Gog, from Magog. Suffice it to say here that almost no scholar, certainly none I’m aware of, believes the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 has already taken place. Some believe it will occur just before the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week, while others believe Ezekiel is actually describing the Battle of Armageddon, which would put it at the end of the Great Tribulation. But all place it sometime in our future.

In my opinion, there are several reasons why Ezekiel 38 can’t be part of the Armageddon scenario. First, only some nations are involved in Ezekiel 38. For example, Saudi Arabia and Western Europe are said to be on the sidelines observing and others you would expect to see, like Egypt and Jordan, are not mentioned at all, although both appear later on. But Zechariah 12:3 says that in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon all the nations of the Earth will come against Jerusalem.

Second, how is Israel going to burn the left over weapons for 7 years as Ezekiel 39:9 indicates unless there are 7 years left in which to burn them? Rev. 21:24. says the nations will walk by the light of the New Jerusalem in the Millennium, so they won’t need fuel for energy then. And then you have Ezekiel 38:11 telling us that Israel will be a peaceful and unsuspecting people when the Moslem coalition strikes. Could that be possible near the end of the Great Tribulation when all the nations are gathering to attack? I don’t think so.

But most importantly, Daniel’s 70th week can’t start until Israel is back in covenant with God and the battle of Ezekiel 38 is what causes the covenant to be re-instated. (Ezek. 39:22) Armageddon comes at the end of Daniel’s 70th week, not the beginning.

As for Gog and Magog, the first thing to note is that while Magog is listed in Genesis 10, Gog is not. The list of 70 names in Genesis 10 is often called the Table of Nations because each of the men named there was the original ancestor of an ethnic group that grew to become a nation of people. For instance, Magog was the 2nd son of Japeth, one of Noah’s three sons, and bore the children who in time became known to the ancient world as the Scythians. They lived in central Asia and are believed to be the forefathers of today’s Russians. Many historical references support this view. For example, Josephus Flavius wrote “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.” And in some ancient Arabic documents, the Great Wall of China is called the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. It was built to keep the Scythians out of China.

So while the Russian people of today are likely descended from Magog, there is no such biological connection for Gog to either Magog or any other ethnic group. There is an unrelated mention of a man named Gog, a grandson of Reuben, in 1 Chronicles 5:4 but there doesn’t seem to be any connection between him and the land of Magog either. Clearly, while Magog refers to the millions of his descendants in today’s Russia, Gog remains a single individual.

Some say he’s a king or leader, and in a real sense I think that’s true but I don’t believe he’s of the human variety. The time spanned by his three appearances in scripture make that impossible.

The first one is in the first verse of Amos 7, but you have to be reading Amos from the Septuigent translation to see it. There, Gog is identified as a king, but of a swarm of locusts. To further shroud him in mystery Proverbs 30:27 states that locusts have no king, and observers of locust swarms agree that no obvious leader directs them, as a queen would direct a hive of bees for example. The swarm of locusts led by Gog in Amos 7:1-2 was symbolic of a judgment that was to come upon the Northern Kingdom, but the Lord relented because of Amos’ intercession.

(This hint also lends insight to another appearance of locusts, by the way. I’m referring to the one in Revelation 9, where a swarm of locusts comes out of the Abyss to afflict those on Earth who lack the seal of God on their foreheads. These locusts have a king named Abaddon in the Hebrew or Appolyon in the Greek. Here again, the Proverbs passage would indicate that these locusts are of supernatural origin like the ones in Amos 7, not ordinary locusts.)

The next time Gog’s mentioned is in Ezekiel 38:1, where he is called by name as the leader of a coalition of what are now primarily Moslem nations attacking Israel. His final mention comes from the Book of Revelation where he again leads the people from Magog against the Lord’s army at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:8).

Even if you’re among those who place the battle of Ezekiel 38 at the end of the Great Tribulation, the span of time between Gog’s last two biblical appearances is at least 1000 years, and while I believe that some born in that era will have long life spans, there isn’t any indication that natural humans born before the Millennium begins will live to see its end. This is especially true of God’s enemies, since all surviving unbelievers are removed from Earth at the beginning of our Lord’s reign.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that Gog is a supernatural figure. The Bible clearly states that behind the human seats of government stand supernatural figures manipulating the thoughts and actions of the world’s leaders. These figures are in Satan’s employ, helping in his effort to wrest ownership of Planet Earth from its Creator. Gog is at least the supernatural figure behind the throne of Russia, and perhaps is even Satan’s counterpart to the Archangel Michael, who commands the Lord’s armies.

In Daniel 10:13 Michael is identified as one of the Lord’s chief princes who in 536 BC came to Daniel’s aid in a supernatural struggle with the Prince of Persia, a nation barely emerging on the world scene having conquered Babylon just three years earlier. At its conclusion Michael told Daniel that he’d soon be battling the Prince of Greece, a nation that didn’t even exist at the time. In Daniel 12:1 we’re told he’ll protect Israel at the end of the age. And in Rev 12:7 he’s seen leading the angelic host in a great battle in heaven when Satan is defeated there and cast down to Earth at the outset of the Great Tribulation. Michael is clearly a supernatural warrior leaping across the pages of history in defense of the Lord’s interests. It makes sense that Satan would have a military commander leading his forces as well, since everything he does seems to mirror the actions of his Creator. With his multiple mentions in Scripture and the long span of time between appearances, Gog could easily be this commander.

Only time will tell if this view is correct. But one of the great advantages of living in our day is that we won’t have long to wait till we find out. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah. 09-12-09

The REPLACEMENTARIAN et al pontificating proves to be

SUPER WRONG, YET AGAIN.

Dispy’s can’t take responsibility for reading comprehension challenges on the other side.

Nor are we impressed by the plethera of

PAPER MACHE DOGS [straw dogs would be tooooo outrageous a flattering label]

that the REPLACEMENTARIANS et al

profer as though they were rational postulations based solidly on Scripture when they are, if anything beyond wispy fog, the opposite.

THE SCRIPTURES about the 144,000 have been posted hereon multiple times.

Read the Scriptures and weep for previous years of willful blindness regarding them.

Read the Scriptures and be broken on them.

Read the Scriptures and learn from them.

I would, however, NOT recommend reading those Scriptures and continuing to mangle them; rubberize them, ignore them, pretend all manner of willfully blind hallucinations about them etc.

BECAUSE GOD IS VERY JEALOUS OVER HIS WORD . . . TO PERFORM IT . . . AND TO DEMAND REVERENCE FOR IT.

I see, yet again, not even a hint of a response regarding Damascus . . . much less a solid Biblical, logical, historically accurate one.

What a surprise. NOT!

Well, chew on these, too. God will never forsake Israel and one day she will return to him.

[1] "At the same time," says the LORD, "I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people."

[2] Thus says the LORD: "The people who survived the sword Found grace in the wilderness-- Israel, when I went to give him rest."

[3] The LORD has appeared of old to me, [saying]: "Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.

[4] Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt, O virgin of Israel! You shall again be adorned with your tambourines, And shall go forth in the dances of those who rejoice.

[5] You shall yet plant vines on the mountains of Samaria; The planters shall plant and eat [them] as ordinary food.

[6] For there shall be a day [When] the watchmen will cry on Mount Ephraim, 'Arise, and let us go up [to] Zion, To the LORD our God.' "

[7] For thus says the LORD: "Sing with gladness for Jacob, And shout among the chief of the nations; Proclaim, give praise, and say, 'O LORD, save Your people, The remnant of Israel!'

[8] Behold, I will bring them from the north country, And gather them from the ends of the earth, [Among] them the blind and the lame, The woman with child And the one who labors with child, together; A great throng shall return there.

[9] They shall come with weeping, And with supplications I will lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters, In a straight way in which they shall not stumble; For I am a Father to Israel, And Ephraim [is] My firstborn.

[10] "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare [it] in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, And keep him as a shepherd [does] his flock.'

[11] For the LORD has redeemed Jacob, And ransomed him from the hand of one stronger than he.

[12] Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, Streaming to the goodness of the LORD-- For wheat and new wine and oil, For the young of the flock and the herd; Their souls shall be like a well-watered garden, And they shall sorrow no more at all.

[13] "Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, And the young men and the old, together; For I will turn their mourning to joy, Will comfort them, And make them rejoice rather than sorrow.

[14] I will satiate the soul of the priests with abundance, And My people shall be satisfied with My goodness, says the LORD."

[15] Thus says the LORD: "A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation [and] bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children, Refusing to be comforted for her children, Because they [are] no more."

[16] Thus says the LORD: "Refrain your voice from weeping, And your eyes from tears; For your work shall be rewarded, says the LORD, And they shall come back from the land of the enemy.

[17] There is hope in your future, says the LORD, That [your] children shall come back to their own border. (Jer 31:1-17 NKJV)

[31] "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--

[32] not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.

[33] But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

[34] No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

[35] Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The LORD of hosts [is] His name):

[36] "If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the LORD, [Then] the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever."

[37] Thus says the LORD: "If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the LORD. (Jer 31:31-37 NKJV)

[16] In those days Judah will be saved, And Jerusalem will dwell safely. And this [is the name] by which she will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.'

[17] "For thus says the LORD: 'David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; (Jer 33:16-17 NKJV)

If you can read these verses (and it took some time to get them all together for you - so please don't just chuck them in your garbage can - and there are many, many more), and still say Israel will not be redeemed by the Lord, you are as closeminded as Quix says. I wont waste my time anymore with someone who only pretends to want truth!

I totally agree.

I think that’s ONE OF THE MAIN PURPOSES BESIDES SIMPLY FOR HIS GLORY . . .

i.e.

THE OBJECT LESSON THAT IS ISRAEL, THE BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF JACOB . . .

To demonstrate HIS FAITHFULNESS . . . HIS LOVE . . . TO THE UNLOVEABLE . . . WHO WE ALL ARE—COMPARED TO HIM.

“Whom” we all are? “Whom” still gives me fits. LOL.

Thanks for your blessings. The students have quickly warmed up to my radical style in the classroom and report much preferring it to their other classes. Thankfully, they also remember more content far longer . . . as my questioning students I meet on the street years after attest. YEA GOD for His creativity and for His . . . startling uses of this bird of rare plumage. LOL.

I love watching their gears go around when asked novel questions.

I love watching their hearts get touched . . . seems like few people in their lives really touch their hearts very often.

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