Posted on 02/24/2009 10:10:12 AM PST by topcat54
Calvary Chapel of Chino California held “ The Southern California Prophecy Conference” last week (Feb. 20–22, 2009). I wonder if those who came to hear speakers like Tim LaHaye, Mark Hitchcock, Paul McGuire, David Hocking, David Reagan, and Ed Hindson were aware that Chuck Smith, the founder of the Calvary Chapel network of churches, made some very definite predictions about when the “rapture” was going to take place.
While cleaning up my office, I came across a cassette tape of a sermon Chuck Smith preached on December 31, 1979. He told his very accepting audience on that day that the rapture would take place in 1981. The former Soviet Republic going into Afghanistan in August of 1978 was the prelude to what Smith considered to be a full-force invasion of the Middle East. It would not be long before “Russia” would invade Israel, Smith told his audience. All of this was said to have been “predicted” by Ezekiel 2600 years ago.
Smith went on to claim in his end-of-the-year message of 30 years ago that because of ozone depletion Revelation 16:8 would be fulfilled during the soon-coming Great Tribulation: “And the fourth angel poured out his bowl upon the sun; and it was given to it to scorch men with fire.” According to Smith, Halley’s Comet would pass near the earth in 1986 and would wreck atmospheric havoc for those left behind as debris from its million-mile tail pummeled the earth. Halley’s Comet did appear in 1986 with no damage done to our planet. (A similar prelude to the end had been predicted based on the so-called Jupiter Effect.[1]) ...
(Excerpt) Read more at americanvision.org ...
I’M CERTAIN
There are some
IN THIS FORUM
who won’t like it
because
it does not give
A PROMINENT PLACE
to modern secular Israel
because these NAYSAYERS are FUNDAMENTALIST
ISRAELATARIANS.
Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
The larger set of genetically Jewish people are not all the same set of people known as Israel spiritually. This doesn’t make statements regarding those who are genetically Gentile.
They might be better pictured as the grafted branch.
Hebrews 11:If the forefathers of the faith accepted by faith that the promise of a promised land was something greater than the acreage between Dan and Beersheba, then why shouldn't we? If the faith of the forefathers of the faith look forward to the perfection of the promises in Christ, then why don't we look back at the covenants as having been perfected in Christ?
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10 for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
11 By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN IN NUMBER, AND INNUMERABLE AS THE SAND WHICH IS BY THE SEASHORE.
13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.
15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.
....
37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38 (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. 39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
But genetic believing Jews and genetic believing Gentiles make up the Church, no? Together they comprise the true olive tree (Rom. 11). Paul's thesis in Rom. 9-11 is that the remnant of Israel is the true Israel. And elsewhere he makes it plain that Gentile believers are made part of that same believing commonwealth (Eph. 2). They are entitled to all the right and privileges as the natural branches. Paul treats them equally in every respect (Gal. 3:28,29). Continuing to refer to them as the grafted branch, as if that is inherently spiritually inferior, is not helpful. Remember, we are 2000 years past the point where Paul was with the fledgling Church. The new man has continued to grow to maturity. We are no longer simplay a new man, but a mature man. We have put away childish things.
Sadly, there are those today who wish to take that mature man back to the days when believers were finding offense with one another over food and feast days. To the days when even apostles were withdrawing from the gentile brethren when the other party arrived. Back to the days of "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas,"
Now, you can make clams that “The Church is not Israel”, and at some level that may be true, but at another level, the important spiritual level, is is not true. The Church is Israel, the holy nation and royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9,10).
Thanks for your kind words.
I don’t know who Babylon is.
Certainly the pseudo-luke-warm-pukey-puke-worthy
“Christian” apostate church is one likely candidate.
Blessed you and your family.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
I should make a T-shirt and wear it with pride.
Linear Greek thinking will not always open up Biblical truth.
If the forefathers of the faith accepted by faith that the promise of a promised land was something greater than the acreage between Dan and Beersheba, then why shouldn't we? If the faith of the forefathers of the faith look forward to the perfection of the promises in Christ, then why don't we look back at the covenants as having been perfected in Christ?Worth looking at is Two Level Fulfillment, an excerpt of Meredith Kline's Kingdom Prologue: Genesis Foundations for a Covenantal Worldview dealing specifically with dispensationalism.But the author of Hebrews is probably just wrongly spiritualizing the covenants, right?
By virtue then of both the filling of the land of Canaan and its characterization as a sabbath-land, this first level, Canaanite fulfillment of the land promise is seen to be an anticipatory portrayal of the consummated kingdom-land, the Metapolis kingdom-city of the new heavens and earth which the Creator covenanted to man from the beginning. Canaan represented this in a figure; it was only a limited land, not the cosmic goal of the creation kingdom. Also, as Hebrews 4 teaches, Canaan was not the true Sabbath experience. Even believers under the new covenant still await that. The Canaanite, first level fulfillment of the land promise served the pedagogical purpose of pointing beyond itself to the second level fulfillment, intimated by the “everlasting” nature of the promised possession.....Biblical teaching concerning a cataclysmic overhauling to be undergone by the earth and the emergence of a new heaven and earth at the Consummation presents a problem to any interpretation of the promise of an everlasting land inheritance understood in its specifically Palestinian delineation. The particular configuration of Canaanite territory specified to Abraham will not exist forever. Even apart from the assumption of radical cosmic restructuring at the final judgment, one would have to recognize that the current continental configurations of the earth reflected in the Abrahamic land promise would be altered beyond recognition in future ages by the natural geologic dynamics of the planet.
Moreover, and more decisively, in the New Testament there are clear indications of a positive kind of the shift to the second level of meaning of the land promise. Indeed, with surprising abruptness the New Testament disregards the first level meaning and simply takes for granted that the second level, cosmic fulfillment is the true intention of the promise. In keeping with Old Testament prophecies that Messiah, the royal seed of Abraham, would receive and reign over a universal kingdom (e.g., Pss 2:8; 72:8; Zech 9:10), Paul identifies Abraham’s promised inheritance as the world (kosmos, Rom 4:13). What is more, the New Testament attributes to Abraham himself as a subjective expectation an eschatological hope based on a second level understanding of the land promise. According to Hebrews 11:10,16 the object of Abraham’s faith-longing was not any earthly turf of this evil world-age but a better, heavenly country, the city of the new age, the creation of God.
I could quote it at great length, but I doubt it would do much good for the contingent here with it's fingers in it's ears humming real loud "Israel is Israel".
ISRAELATARIANS.
ISRAELaccordingtothefleshOLATORS
don’t you think it’s only natural for humans to predict, explain and wait for some god-awful event in the human history of mankind to wipe the slate clean? or better yet,
to wait for a savior, a messiah, the “one”, etc... to
deliver man from his own evils? I think it’s perfectly natural but not plausible
don’t you think it’s only natural for humans to predict, explain and wait for some god-awful event in the human history of mankind to wipe the slate clean? or better yet,
to wait for a savior, a messiah, the “one”, etc... to
deliver man from his own evils? I think it’s perfectly natural but not plausible. I think better to place trust in
g-d completely.
What half tribes??? Did God list any of these tribes as half tribes??? Obviously God disagrees with your assessment...
God lists the 12 tribes as HE determines who they are...It may not be the same 12 tribes that started out initially but so what??? If God says these are now the 12 tribes, then these are the 12 tribes...
The fact that you disagree with God is meaningless...You have shown you disagree with God on a regular basis...
don’t you think it’s only natural for humans to predict, explain and wait for some god-awful event in the human history of mankind to wipe the slate clean? or better yet, to wait for a savior, a messiah, the “one”, etc... to deliver man from his own evils?
We do seem to be wired that way. Such a thing could not be explained evolutionarily -- natural catastrophic disasters of the magnitude expected are not survivable, nor would they happen enough to establish a pattern by selective pressure.
It's the way we've been made.
Might be tough to fit on a T-shirt.
This sort of posturing seems to be a characteristic of folks who have little to add to the discussion. I guess you think that by making blanket, unsupportable statements you will win an argument or make points or who knows what.
And then there is the mindless hubris to think that poo-pooing what you believe is akin to disagreeing with God.
Amazing. When did they make you the pope of futurism?
Genesis 35:23-26Later, Israel, on his deathbed, blessed Ephraim and Manasseh as his own through which nations would be blessed... Ephraim above Manasseh though Manasseh was the firstborn:
the sons of Leah: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, then Simeon and Levi and Judah and Issachar and Zebulun; the sons of Rachel: Joseph and Benjamin; and the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's maid: Dan and Naphtali; and the sons of Zilpah, Leah's maid: Gad and Asher. These are the sons of Jacob who were born to him in Paddan-aram.
Genesis 48:14-20Israel then blessed Joseph with twice the birthright, which was subdivided between Joseph's two sons. Thus, the birthrights of Joseph and Rueben (who lost his birthright by defiling his father's bed. Gen 49:3-4) became the birthright of Joseph... the tribe of Joseph, subdivided amongst his sons, who, though blessed recieved no birthright from Israel.
But Israel stretched out his right hand and laid it on the head of Ephraim, who was the younger, and his left hand on Manasseh's head, crossing his hands, although Manasseh was the firstborn.
He blessed Joseph, and said,
"The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked,
The God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day,
The angel who has redeemed me from all evil,
Bless the lads;
And may my name live on in them,
And the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
And may they grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."
When Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand on Ephraim's head, it displeased him; and he grasped his father's hand to remove it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head. Joseph said to his father, "Not so, my father, for this one is the firstborn. Place your right hand on his head." But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know; he also will become a people and he also will be great. However, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations."
He blessed them that day, saying,
"By you Israel will pronounce blessing, saying,
'May God make you like Ephraim and Manasseh!'"
Thus he put Ephraim before Manasseh.
I haven't laid out all the involved verses and considered all the nuances of that issue.
HOWEVER, in terms of REPLACEMENTARIANISM--YOUR POINT IS SILLY AND MOOT.
GOD HAS CLEARLY DECREED 12 TRIBES AS BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB
WILL
LITERALLY INHERIT HIS LITERAL PROMISES TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB.
That's just a Biblical fact stated clearly and plainly in many dozens of verses.
Your frothing at the fingers about 'spiritual Israel' in terms of God's promises to Blood Descendants Israel is just so much Biblical cluelessness or willful blindness, as far as I can detect or discern.
It's also rather mystifying psychologically. Why would anyone calling themselves "Christian" work so hard to call God a liar?
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