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To: Iscool; topcat54; Quix; Cvengr; Lee N. Field
What half tribes??? Did God list any of these tribes as half tribes??? Obviously God disagrees with your assessment...

Sure he does. There are more lists of the Tribes of Israel in the Bible than here.
Genesis 35:23-26
the sons of Leah: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, then Simeon and Levi and Judah and Issachar and Zebulun; the sons of Rachel: Joseph and Benjamin; and the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's maid: Dan and Naphtali; and the sons of Zilpah, Leah's maid: Gad and Asher. These are the sons of Jacob who were born to him in Paddan-aram.
Later, Israel, on his deathbed, blessed Ephraim and Manasseh as his own through which nations would be blessed... Ephraim above Manasseh though Manasseh was the firstborn:
Genesis 48:14-20
But Israel stretched out his right hand and laid it on the head of Ephraim, who was the younger, and his left hand on Manasseh's head, crossing his hands, although Manasseh was the firstborn.

He blessed Joseph, and said,
"The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked,
The God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day,
The angel who has redeemed me from all evil,
Bless the lads;
And may my name live on in them,
And the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
And may they grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."


When Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand on Ephraim's head, it displeased him; and he grasped his father's hand to remove it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head. Joseph said to his father, "Not so, my father, for this one is the firstborn. Place your right hand on his head." But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know; he also will become a people and he also will be great. However, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations."

He blessed them that day, saying,
"By you Israel will pronounce blessing, saying,
'May God make you like Ephraim and Manasseh!'"
Thus he put Ephraim before Manasseh.
Israel then blessed Joseph with twice the birthright, which was subdivided between Joseph's two sons. Thus, the birthrights of Joseph and Rueben (who lost his birthright by defiling his father's bed. Gen 49:3-4) became the birthright of Joseph... the tribe of Joseph, subdivided amongst his sons, who, though blessed recieved no birthright from Israel.

Did you really think I just made this up out of convenience to a covenantal outlook?

God lists the 12 tribes as HE determines who they are...It may not be the same 12 tribes that started out initially but so what???

So you agree, then, that the nation of Israel with whom God made a Covenant is not the same nation of Israel in Revelation? The entire bloodline of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not there.

The fact that you disagree with God is meaningless...You have shown you disagree with God on a regular basis...

And thus, our conversation comes to a close. A statement with such insight and theological prowess is just impossible to argue. < /sarcasm >
359 posted on 03/06/2009 10:18:30 AM PST by raynearhood (<< BEWARE!!! A consistent NAYSAYER posted this reply)
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To: raynearhood
The entire bloodline of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not there.

I haven't laid out all the involved verses and considered all the nuances of that issue.

HOWEVER, in terms of REPLACEMENTARIANISM--YOUR POINT IS SILLY AND MOOT.

GOD HAS CLEARLY DECREED 12 TRIBES AS BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB

WILL

LITERALLY INHERIT HIS LITERAL PROMISES TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB.

That's just a Biblical fact stated clearly and plainly in many dozens of verses.

Your frothing at the fingers about 'spiritual Israel' in terms of God's promises to Blood Descendants Israel is just so much Biblical cluelessness or willful blindness, as far as I can detect or discern.

It's also rather mystifying psychologically. Why would anyone calling themselves "Christian" work so hard to call God a liar?

360 posted on 03/06/2009 10:29:23 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: raynearhood; Iscool; Lee N. Field; Cvengr
”God lists the 12 tribes as HE determines who they are...It may not be the same 12 tribes that started out initially but so what???”

So you agree, then, that the nation of Israel with whom God made a Covenant is not the same nation of Israel in Revelation? The entire bloodline of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not there.

Either that or God is very fickle. Take the poor tribe of Dan, for example. One minute it’s in, then it’s out, then it’s back in again (according to futurism).

361 posted on 03/06/2009 10:33:33 AM PST by topcat54
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