Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Have you ever studied history or literature or any serious field? They’re all full of controversy — “universally accepted” is a pretty fantasy. Well, sometimes not so pretty.
How about that then.
My recollection stems from how, on the way to church one Sunday morning, I asked what kind of denomination we were. My father replied that we were non-denominational, and the words 'sola scriptura' stick out: "By the Bible alone." Given that we always had sermons from the Bible, it stuck to me that that's what kind of church we were; one that teaches by the Bible and nothing else; hence the sola scriptura tagline that described our non-denominational church.
And no, there was no mention of the '5 Solas' you speak of.
Thanks for clarifying.
Dr. Eckleburg, it’s not even “co-redeemer” it’s the very odd “co-Redemptrix” which suggests that this fantasy feel good Mary is on a level with some other feminine redeemer, maybe Ishtar or that cow Hathor
Exactly. Many have turned Mary into some kind of co-Christ. Mary would not be happy with that at all.
Could be because we don’t believe they are alive in Heaven?
Makes me glad I don't live in the northeast, where such liberal priests are prominent.
It's the one thing I've come to understand over the years, watching news and reading articles of corrupt priests and elders across multiple denominations; no matter what your particular brand of Christianity, Satan will go for the head.
Cut off the head, and the body will follow.
Exactly. Thank you.
And therein lies the sacrilege of Rome.
I am quite certain to even entertain that thought is blasphemy and reveals a total miscomprehension of God's word.
I do not believe Mary would have been guilty of such a profound error. Strange that the RCC would attribute that to the mother of the Christ child. Especially since Rome spends so much time telling us Mary fully comprehended her son's life and work on earth, and to such an extent that she actually shared in accomplishing that work of the cross.
Run that by the editors of the NYT (to choose a random example)!
It exhibits a lack of Faith in the completed act at the Cross.
I think we all have moments of weakness we look at later and regret. I'm sure that's part of the reason Peter failed so terribly denying Christ three times. We all fail our Saviour and no matter how badly He forgives us just as he forgave Peter. However, a whole series of beliefs and practices have been created to make that crisis of Faith easier, if you buy into it.
IOW, if your Faith weakens pray to Mary she will buck you up. Or go to church and participate in the Lord's Supper and get a grace refill. The problem is all this takes away where we need to go, which is to JESUS CHRIST our LORD and SAVIOUR.
Translated perhaps, but don't you think he spoke Latin? Obviously Jesus would have understood him in any language.
Amen. We are told to pray for each other, and we are told to pray to the Triune God alone.
Ah, for the world of difference between two prepositions. 8~)
No one is questioning your ability to read what God says: we disagree with your ability to understand it, and the multiplicity of "Bible-only" sects and congregations certainly lends that view credence.
AMEN! For those with ears to hear.
And we would be overjoyed if you would simply stop trying to tell us what we believe.
Amen!
By God's grace we have been preserved from that error. The only thing left to those who hate us is to repeat falsehoods
I’m glad he woke up!
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