Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
scripture cited please
And in another place
...παντες γαρ αυτω ζωσιν
I would never pretend to judge you on how you practice your faith. That is up to God. My only point is to explain my reasoning and to share what I find to be such a blessing. It is OK if you don't agree.
The verses you cited are the Bible. The rest was your own personal interpretation of Scripture. You are certainly entitled to it, I do not mean to deprecate it, and I frankly do not care to convert you.
Nonetheless, Mary is not dead. Neither are the Saints or the saved.
What does that mean?
obviously
The questions I have answered are well and truly answered....whether the question was expressed or implied.
LOL
If you are a good Catholic, you best be tubbing up your lawn.
????? Is there such a thing? BTW, if there's "concrete evidence" on anything, that thing is no longer a matter of faith, but of knowledge.
More yopios, but okay when they do it.
It's so interesting to read all the fuss about Mary's purported tomb, as if that means anything at all.
When John Calvin died, he specified that he be buried in an unmarked grave so that no one would even be tempted to look for him there, or God forbid, to make his grave into any kind of earthly memorial.
of course not. That is why I said the particular terminology was confusing at best, and would lead to real misunderstandings at worst.
But the Catholic Church does not teach the co-redeemer thing anywhere. If it isn’t in the official Catechism, it isn’t the official stand of the Church.
“Loving” something and labeling something as a “co-redeemer” are miles apart.
Well of course there’s such a thing. Historical documents, architectural ruins, Jewish genealogical records, all sorts of stuff. Or you can make up feel good stories and see if they float
Joh 2:1 And the third day, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee: and the mother of Jesus was there.
Joh 2:2 And Jesus also was invited, and his disciples, to the marriage.
Joh 2:3 And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine.
Joh 2:4 And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.
Joh 2:5 His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.
Proud, presumptuous old coot!
LOL
The Catholic Church has not done so.
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