What they never taught me in earth science.
Posted on 05/14/2008 6:26:21 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
About the Author...
After graduating from high school, Mr. Cluff served a full-time mission for the LDS Church in Mexico where he met his wife. One year after his release, they were married in the Arizona Temple and now have five lovely children and nine lovelier grandchildren!
They moved to Phoenix, Arizona, and one day Mr. Cluff noticed an advertisement of Raymond Bernard's book, The Hollow Earth in a tabloid newspaper. He sent for it and thereby began many years of study and writing which has led to the present work. Today, Mr. Cluff works as a computer programmer/analyst, and continues his research into evidences for hollow planets as a hobby.
He firmly believes: OUR EARTH IS HOLLOW! Backed with scientific evidence, including satellite photos of the polar holes, analysis of the observations of polar explorers, analysis of earthquake data and much more--coupled with evidence from the scriptures that the Lost Tribes of Israel are now FOUND within the Hollow of Our Earth, he presents his argument in favor of the Hollow Earth Theory.
It is his hope that someday, he may have the privilege of visiting his cousins of the Ten Tribes in the North Countries of the Hollow Earth! The author's own ancestry is of Israelitish origin, of the Tribe of Ephraim, and can be traced back to the Exile of the Ten Tribes from Palestine when they were carried captive into Assyria in 721 B.C.
The Ten Tribes were held captive for over a century by the Assyrians, but then escaped over the Caucasus mountains sometime before Babylon conquered Assyria in 605 B.C. They made their home in the region of the Crimea and the Steppe of Russia just north of the Black Sea up until the first century B.C. While there, they were ruled by an illustrious leader named Odin. The Roman armies threatened to conquer the region so his ancestors, because of their fierce love of freedom and independence, determined to migrate. From their custom of burying their dead in burial mounds, their migrations have been traced from the Black Sea up the valley of the river Dnieper in Russia to the Baltic Sea and from thence to northern Germany and Scandinavia.
One branch of these people became known as the Sakae or Saxons and settled in Northern Germany. Shortly after the Romans left the British Isles in the fourth century A.D., certain Celtic tribes of the British Isles invited the Engles, Saxons, and Jutes (who had previously raided the east coast of England as pirates) to bring their bands over and help defeat other Celts. From the eighth to the eleventh century they were known as the Scandinavian Vikings. They became the most volatile seapower and military force in Europe. They often attacked coastal areas with fleets that ran into the hundreds of ships and highly organized armies of several thousand. The French became weary of being looted each harvest season and so they invited the Vikings to accept a large section of France and raise their own crops. The Norsemen agreed and the territory became known as Normandy, or loved of the Norsemen.
The Author's Clough-Cluff forefathers were of the Saxon Vikings who settled Normandy in France. They came to England with William The Conqueror in 1066 A.D. In the distribution of lands among his officers, a large estate fell to one CLOUGH in Yorkshire. This estate has been transmitted from father to son until the present time and is known as the Esquire Clough Estate, and is situated about 26 miles from the old city of York, from which the Pilgrim Fathers sailed in 1620 for the New World.
In the year 1635, fifteen years after the first Pilgrims immigrated to America, at about the age of l9 to 2l, John Clough with his brother sailed from London, England on the Clipper ship The Elizabeth. Upon arriving in America, John Clough settled in Massachusetts. One of his descendants, David Cluff, changed the spelling of his last name when he joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (commonly known as the Mormons) in 1830. Therefore, all Cluff's in the world, to this author's knowledge, are descendants of this David Cluff, whose ancestry can be traced back through the Saxon Vikings to the Tribe of Ephraim of the House of Israel.
From the Author...
"Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
"And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
"And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."
It is by application of this scientific test to that book of ancient American scripture that I came to a knowledge that it is of God, because God did answer my prayer and let me know by the power of the Holy Ghost of its truthfulness. Millions of Latter-day Saints have performed this same test and received the same answer of the divinity of this book. Therefore, it could be said that Mormonism is a scientific religion. The acquisition of this one precious truth has given me the impulse to discover the ultimate: the truth of all things. And my search has not been in vain. In fact, my search is a much more efficient one because my hits in the dark are much more infrequent when I have the power of the Holy Ghost to lighten the way to the next truth. Thus my search has been an exciting one and I hope some of the things I have uncovered concerning this earth of ours will be as exciting to you as it has been to me.
Would you like to receive a free copy of The Book of Mormon? Then click here.
I think you need to quote the whole verse and it is pretty apparent that the "North Countries" was something different from the rest of the earth:
Ether 13:11
And then also cometh the Jerusalem of old; and the inhabitants thereof, blessed are they, for they have been washed in the blood of the Lamb; and they are they who were scattered and gathered in from the four quarters of the earth, and from the north countries, and are partakers of the fulfilling of the covenant which God made with their father, Abraham.
The four quarters of the earth would represent the whole surface of the planet. So why add "AND the North Countries"? Were not the North Countries included in the four quarters of the earth? Or do you think Joseph Smith may have been referring to the land above the North Pole mentioned by OB Huntington in post 44?
Thank you for your contribution to the thread. Come back and visit us again.
Asking him to be honest in the initial post and avoid the subtleties that he does doesn't seem to be personal though, it is a direct request to make his intentions known.
That's all I'm asking.
Marlowe, you forgot to include all the OT prophecies that said the same thing about them returning from the North countries.
How convenient for you.
I’m now going to leave this thread before I say something I will regret, and get admonished by the RM again.
It’s been a joy, it really has... really!
This will solve the polar bear problem. We just need to show them the path to the higher planes.
I think it started when the scientists jumped on the global warming bandwagon. If they can’t get that right, and of course there’s the whole evolution thing, people just lose all respect for the elite class.
I think this was a plot line in the “V” movies.
***So let me get this straight... Some old LDS member also believed in the Hollow Earth theory? Is this your way to keep the Mormon fight alive?***
Well, it is interesting on how some people will grab onto what ever theory is popular at the time. After the New York SUN newspaper discovered “men on the moon” in the 1830’s J.Smith did make a prophecy concerning them.
http://www.xtec.es/recursos/astronom/ask/refmoon.htm
What they never taught me in earth science.
This isn't just one old member. Frederick Culmer, Sr., a Mormon elder, published a pamphlet in Salt Lake City in 1886 with all kinds of references to a hollow earth and a a hollow Milky Way, etc.
See http://www.olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1880s-1890s/1886Culm.htm
The link says Culmer got his ideas from:
Elder Culmer's strange views, concerning an inhabited hollow Earth, appear to have sprung from the convergence of information from three separate sources: 1. His own idea regarding the natural occurrence of hollow spheres; 2. John C. Symmes' pronouncements on the Earth's internal structure, as summarized and reviewed in an 1885 issue of Parry's Literary Journal; and, 3. Elder George Reynolds' 1883 book, Are We of Israel?
Culmer in his pamphlet says that and so far as daring astronomers have been able to demonstrate, the universe is a hollow globe of which the Milky Way is the circumference and the nearest sun to the centre is Alcyone...
I think I read a stat in Jessie L. Embry's latest book on polygamy that at one point 63% of that colony were polygamists.
YOU pulled me back in, this is too good not to respond to.
The same guy that helped advance this Hollow Earth idea was infatuated with men on the moon, and was so from his youth, thanks to some ideas of his Father. This man, O.B. Huntington (read the first post) was ALSO the man who “recorded” in his journal about Joseph Smith making that statement. Joseph didn’t, no one else claims he did. Joseph certainly never recorded any such thing.
Huntington not only had belief in men on the moon and hollow earth, he projected his views on others.
Believe what you will.
I don't think anyone outside a few government and science elites know for sure, but I like to believe there are people and other life on the inside. It would also open up more possibilities for extra-terrestrial life, as many planets have no liveable surface atmosphere.
A few coast2coast interviews on the subject by people who have devoted their lives to studying it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRMxJh5LFVI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFN4b0plmRE
Here's an LDS guy talking about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIRdDA_EDfM
There are some others on Youtube, but these seem to have a more Christian, scriptural and scientific perspective while others just seem occult and "New Age" (probably worth a look anyway).
Now I know most Mormons won't believe it, but I personally think it's probably more integral to scripture than previously thought. How else does one explain millennial life spans and giants in the Bible and other scripture? There was probably a different environment and gravity.
I think the "rivers" in Genesis were great water bodies on the inside. I know Joseph Smith said it was Missouri, and the Bible says Mesopotamia, but could it be that both areas were modeled on a primal land from which humans sprang inside this earth? "The Garden of Eden" may just be the whole of the interior earth.
Joseph Smith also said people lived "on" the moon. Could he really have meant the inside? Some that feel smug by mentioning this statement (and how it "disproves" his prophetic role) may have missed original intention altogether. Sure it could have been a guess or opinion, but how do we know he was wrong? The moon may have a working living environment on the inside. I'm almost certain people have been living on Mars somehow or another. Just examine the pyramids and the mysterious "face". Maybe they were internal dwellers that built some monuments on the outside.
Also I like to think most UFOs are not extra-terrestrial, but inner-terrestrial in origin. That said, I'm I pretty sure interstellar and interplanetary travel are common among higher extraterrestrial peoples.
BTW, has anyone considered the technology behind the first vision before? A "light beam from the sky". Was it a space ship in orbit, that beamed these divine Beings down? I guess this is another subject altogether, but I believe God to have many technologies in his kindgom. Just look at the Liahona and Urim and Thummin. Could these not be viewed as advanced "technology" that harness the spiritual as well as physical? After all, both are but part of a whole.
I posted this earlier to Marlowe about the infallibility of prophets. It appears you might need a better understanding of what Mormons consider doctrine and what they consider ideas of men who are free to use their brains, or lack thereof. It's called free agency.
Here's a repeat from the other thread.
This goes right to the heart of all you anti’s approach. You constantly bring up snippets here or there that may or may not have been said, but you can't bring yourself to understand that prophets are not infallible, both anciently and modern.
Absolutely I discredit a “I rather think they do” statement by BY as being non-doctrinal. He was a man, first, prophet of the Lord second.
Do you equally discredit all ancient prophets who (oops, yes, were human) as perfect and prophets who never sinned? Only one person who ever lived was perfect. It wasn't any of us, nor any of these prophets.
Noah occasionally drank wine to the point of drunkenness and unconsciousness (Genesis 9:21, 23). Abraham acquiesced in his wife's mistreatment of his second wife (Genesis 16:6). Jacob “with subtlety” and deception obtained his brother's blessing from his blind father Isaac (Genesis 27:12, 35), and also hated his first wife Leah (Genesis 29:30-31). Moses at the least committed manslaughter prior to his call as a prophet (Exodus 2:12-14), and after that call occasionally exhibited doubt in God's word, fierce anger, and boastful arrogance (Exodus 4:10-14, 5:22-23, 32:19; Numbers 20:10-12). The Lord had to intervene directly to prevent Samuel from choosing the wrong man as king (1 Samuel 16:6-7). Daniel sought forgiveness for his sins while prophet (Daniel 9:20). Jonah resisted the commandment of God to him (Jonah 1:2-3, 4:1) James and John, as apostles, delighted in the thought of their opponents being destroyed (Luke 9:52-56) and pridefully sought to elevate themselves above the rest of God's children in the eternities (Mark 10:35-38). Peter was impudent, boastful, arrogant, and cowardly as an apostle during the life of Jesus (Matthew 16:21-23, 26:69-75; John 13:8-9, 18:10-11). Despite Christ's command to send the Gospel to all nations at His ascension (Matthew 27:19; Mark 16:15; Luke 24:47), it required another specific revelation to Peter to persuade him that the Gospel should be taken to those who were not Jews (Acts 10-11), and even years after that revelation Peter continued to demonstrate his prejudice (Galatians 2:1,9,11-14). Nor did Peter hesitate to criticize the approach of his fellow apostle Paul in teaching the Gospel (2 Peter 3:15-16); Paul likewise boasted that he had publicly condemned Peter and “withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed” (Galatians 2:11-14). Moreover, conflicts between Barnabus and Paul resulted in the disruption of their mission (Acts 13:2, 15:36-39)
That all said, all these men were of God, and strove to do his will as they understood it. They were prophets yes, but they were also men. Why can't you understand that?
I forgot to ping you.
You'll love this thread.
Thanks so much for posting the links! It was unexpected, and a very nice thing for you to do... :) I just wanted to ping you so I wasn’t “talking about you behind your back” so to speak. :)
Was Burroghs a Mormon?
How many wives did he have?
So many questions, so little bandwidth.
It can't be K (she's too independent), and there's no way you pick up your own dirty socks, so it must be the dog.
Check under the bed.
(No...don't....monsters live under beds.)
Judge Symmes of the “Symmes Purchase” was pretty famous.
Cpt John Symmes is not of great renown. Far greater was Symmes daughter, Anna, who married future president, William Henry Harrison.
I wonder if the hollow earth theory isn’t a result of the remarkable prophecy of Shawnee Indian, Tecumseh, regarding the great Madras fault earthquake of December 1811. It was a huge series of quakes, some have said the Richter might have been in the 9’s. Coupled with the rising danger of Tecumseh’s rebellion and the War of 1812, this would have been prominent in the mind of a military man (Cpt Symmes) of that era.
The quake was at the juncture of the Ohio and Mississippi. It affected the region for hundreds of miles, streams changed course, other areas collapsed in upon itself. In fact, one of the huge collapses resulted in the formation of Reelfoot Lake, a huge lake on the Tennessee/Kentucky western border.
Such a collapse would give the impression of a hollow earth. Other events of the day would have seared it into the memory of those living anywhere near that area and certainly anyone having to deal with the Indian uprising.
It was the sign Tecumseh had promised tribes for years. Once the sign appeared tribes from all over the central US were to rise and push the white man back across the Allegheny Mountains.
See Allan Eckerts’s “Gateway to Empire” for a great history of the era. While Tecumseh & Harrison figure prominently in the entire book, the earthquake shows up pgs 393-394.
I thought Shakespear when I saw “the pen is mightier than the sword”
But I found some more...
Syad Muhammad Latif, in his 1896 history of Agra, quoted King Abdullah of Bokhara (Abdullah-Khan II), who died in 1598, as saying that “He was more afraid of Abu’l-Fazl’s pen than of Akbar’s sword.”[19]
William Shakespeare in 1600, in his play Hamlet Act 2, scene II, wrote: “... many wearing rapiers are afraid of goosequills.”[9][20]
Robert Burton, in 1621, in The Anatomy of Melancholy, stated: “It is an old saying, A blow with a word strikes deeper than a blow with a sword: and many men are as much galled with a calumny, a scurrilous and bitter jest, a libel, a pasquil, satire, apologue, epigram, stage-play or the like, as with any misfortune whatsoever.”[21] After listing several historical examples he concludes: “Hinc quam sit calamus saevior ense patet”,[21] which translates as “From this it is clear how much more cruel the pen may be than the sword.”[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pen_is_mightier_than_the_sword
That quake made the Mississippi River go backwards for miles...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.