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Answering the "Replacement Theology" Critics (Part 1)
American Vision ^ | 10/7/2005 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54

Replacement theology has become dispensationalism's latest prophetic boogeyman. If you want to end a debate over eschatology, just charge your opponent with holding to replacement theology. What is “replacement theology,” sometimes called “supersessionism,” and why do dispensationalists accuse non-dispensationalists of holding it? Here’s a typical dispensational definition:

Replacement Theology: a theological perspective that teaches that the Jews have been rejected by God and are no longer God’s Chosen People. Those who hold to this view disavow any ethnic future for the Jewish people in connection with the biblical covenants, believing that their spiritual destiny is either to perish or become a part of the new religion that superseded Judaism (whether Christianity or Islam).1

“Replacement theology” is dispensationalism’s trump card in any debate over eschatology because it implies anti-semitism. Hal Lindsey attempted to use this card in his poorly researched and argued The Road to Holocaust.2 He wove an innovative tale implying that anyone who is not a dispensationalist carries the seeds of anti-semitism within his or her prophetic system. This would mean that every Christian prior to 1830 would have been theologically anti-semitic although not personally anti-semtic.

As Peter Leithart and I point out in The Legacy of Hatred Continues,3 it’s dispensationalists who hold to a form of replacement theology since they believe that Israel does not have any prophetic significance this side of the rapture! Prior to the rapture, in terms of dispensational logic, the Church has replaced Israel. This is unquestionably true since God’s prophetic plan for Israel has been postponed until the prophetic time clock starts ticking again at the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week which starts only after the Church is taken to heaven in the so-called rapture. Until then, God is dealing redemptively with the Church. Am I making this up? Consider the following by dispensationalist E. Schuyler English:

An intercalary4 period of history, after Christ’s death and resurrection and the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, has intervened. This is the present age, the Church age. . . . During this time God has not been dealing with Israel nationally, for they have been blinded concerning God’s mercy in Christ. . . . However, God will again deal with Israel as a nation. This will be in Daniel’s seventieth week, a seven-year period yet to come.5

According to English and every other dispensationalist, the Church has replaced Israel until the rapture. The unfulfilled promises made to Israel are not fulfilled until after the Church is taken off the earth. Thomas Ice, one of dispensationalism’s rising stars, admits that the Church replaces Israel this side of the rapture: “We dispensationalists believe that the church has superseded Israel during the current church age, but God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel ‘as the institution for the administration of divine blessings to the world.’”6

Dispensationalists claim that their particular brand of eschatology is the only prophetic system that gives Israel her proper place in redemptive history. This is an odd thing to argue since two-thirds of the Jews will be slaughtered during the post-rapture tribulation, and the world will be nearly destroyed. Charles Ryrie writes in his book The Best is Yet to Come that during this post-rapture period Israel will undergo “the worst bloodbath in Jewish history.”7 The book’s title doesn’t seem to very appropriate considering that during this period of time most of the Jews will die! John Walvoord follows a similar line of argument: “Israel is destined to have a particular time of suffering which will eclipse any thing that it has known in the past. . . . [T]he people of Israel . . . are placing themselves within the vortex of this future whirlwind which will destroy the majority of those living in the land of Palestine.”8 Arnold Fruchtenbaum states that during the Great Tribulation “Israel will suffer tremendous persecution (Matthew 24:15–28; Revelation 12:1–17). As a result of this persecution of the Jewish people, two-thirds are going to be killed.”9

During the time when Israel seems to be at peace with the world, she is really under the domination of the antichrist who will turn on her at the mid-point in the seven-year period. Israel waits more than 2000 years for the promises finally to be fulfilled, and before it happens, two-thirds of them are wiped out. Those who are charged with holding a “replacement theology viewpoint” believe in no inevitable future Jewish bloodbath. In fact, we believe that the Jews will inevitably embrace Jesus as the Messiah this side of the Second Coming. The fulfillment of Zechariah 13:8 is a past event. It may have had its fulfillment in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Contrary to dispensationalism’s interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus' disciples warned the Jewish nation for nearly forty years about the impending judgment (Matt. 3:7; 21:42–46; 22:1–14; 24:15–22). Those who believed Jesus’ words of warning were delivered “from the wrath to come” (1 Thess. 1:10). Those who continued to reject Jesus as the promised Messiah, even though they had been warned for a generation (Matt. 24:34), “wrath has come upon them to the utmost” (1 Thess. 2:16; cf. 1 Thess. 5:1–11; 2 Pet. 3:10–13).

Before critics of replacement theology throw stones, they need to take a look at their own prophetic system and see its many lapses in theology and logic.

Read Part Two of this article...


1. Randall Price, Unholy War: America, Israel and Radical Islam (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 2001), 412.

2. Hal Lindsey, The Road to Holocaust (New York: Bantam Books, 1989). The address for Bantam Books is 666 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York.

3. Gary DeMar and Peter J. Leithart, The Legacy of Hatred Continues: A Response to Hal Lindsey’s The Road to Holocaust (Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 1989).

4. Inserted into the calendar.

5. E. Schuyler English, A Companion to the New Scofield Reference Bible (New York: Oxford University Press, 1972), 135.

6. Thomas Ice, “The Israel of God,” The Thomas Ice Collection: www.raptureready.com/featured/TheIsraelOfGod.html#_edn3

7. Charles C. Ryrie, The Best is Yet to Come (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1981), 86.

8. John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1962), 107, 113. Emphasis added.

9. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, “The Little Apocalypse of Zechariah,” The End Times Controversy: The Second Coming Under Attack, eds. Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 2003), 262.


Gary DeMar is president of American Vision and the author of more than 20 books. His latest is Myths, Lies, and Half Truths.

Permission to reprint granted by American Vision P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: arafat; covenants; dispensationalism; eschatology; replacementtheology; wtf
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To: topcat54
"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [I John 4:2,3]

So did Jesus come in the flesh in 70 AD or did Jesus not come in the flesh in 70 AD???

581 posted on 11/10/2007 12:40:12 PM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: topcat54; 1000 silverlings; fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; Lee N. Field; Lord_Calvinus
Amils generally believe that the "thousand years" spans the time from Christ's first coming to His second coming.

Is this from apprx. 30 AD to 1030 AD. It doesn't seem to make sense. Following the 1,000 yr reign Satan is released the final battle occurs and New Jerusalem comes out of heaven.

Many postmils believe that as well, however postmils generally see progress in the positive effect of the gospel over time.

There is no doubt believing the gospel does nothing but good. However, I don't believe Christianity as a whole is growing as fast as Islam.

I don't see understanding these issues as salvational, but more as discernment. I'm not looking for a flame war and I appreciate your thoughts. I don't believe the millennial kingdom has occurred so I guess that makes me a premillenialist.

582 posted on 11/10/2007 12:41:21 PM PST by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: Uncle Chip; topcat54; 1000 silverlings; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; Lee N. Field; tabsternager; ...
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [I John 4:2,3]

This verse is a confirmation of the Trinity. As God ordained from before the foundation of the world, Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man, was born, died and rose to pay for our sins, the truth of which is made known to us by the Holy Spirit.

Dispensationalists really seem to weaken the message of the Gospel, IMO. They postpone what is already in front of our faces -- Christ risen, which all men are commanded to believe today.

Topcat's explanation of Christ "coming in the clouds" makes perfect sense when compared with other Scripture.

What are the effects of believing dispensationalism other than trepidation, anxiety and forsaking the preaching of the Gospel to all men, Jews included.

How can Christians go wrong in believing Christ reigns today?

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Col. 1:16-17

Christians prosper by the understanding that all existence is by and for and through Jesus Christ. It's the temporal world that loathes that fact, and so it has concocted any number of misdirections to take our eyes off the only truth in this life -- Jesus Christ.

As I've said before, I had never even heard much about dispensationalism until I came to this forum. It continues to be a source of perplexity and apparent contradiction to God's word and His mandate to "be not afraid; only believe" (Mark 5:36).

Christ rose from the dead, and nothing in this world has been the same since.

"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." -- Hebrews 9:24-28

This is what I know of salvation. Christ came and claimed His own, yesterday, today and tomorrow, until He physically returns at the end of history when He will judge us either condemned in our sins or acquitted by His atonement.

The literalist/allegorist dichotomy is a Chinese finger puzzle. It's not real. Sometimes the Bible speaks literally, and sometimes figuratively. What is true is that the Son, Jesus Christ, is in heaven at the right hand of God, the Father, awaiting His sheep while God the Holy Spirit works in time to bring about God's purpose in creation, the redemption of all whom He has loved from before the foundation of the world.

And it seems obvious to me that the more the word of God is preached, the greater the number of Christians in this world (exactly as many as were appointed to eternal life), and thus the more God's grace will fill the planet. How can that be a bad way to view this life?

583 posted on 11/10/2007 1:41:31 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: wmfights; topcat54; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Lord_Calvinus; Lee N. Field; tabsternager
Christ rose from the dead, and all history is an outflow from that point. God wrote the OT to foretell Calvary, and He wrote the NT to reveal Calvary. B.C./A.D.

The question then becomes does Christ's life and death and resurrection have a positive effect on the creation?

Well, since Adams life had a negative effect on creation, it makes perfect sense to believe Christ's life had and has a positive effect on creation.

However, I don't believe Christianity as a whole is growing as fast as Islam.

Islam is a blip. It was contained before and it will be contained again. What is this war if not a clash of theology (though many hesitate to label it as such?)

Overall, do you think Islam will prevail or Christianity?

584 posted on 11/10/2007 1:50:39 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Overall, do you think Islam will prevail or Christianity?

I believe Islam is the product of Satan. I've read the Book, in the end we win.

585 posted on 11/10/2007 1:56:08 PM PST by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: Uncle Chip; topcat54; 1000 silverlings; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; Lee N. Field

Isaiah 19:1:
“So did Jesus come in the flesh in 70 AD or did Jesus not come in the flesh in 70 AD???”

You’ve probably seen this before — compare this judgment against Egypt that was fulfilled:

Isaiah 19
A Prophecy About Egypt
1 An oracle concerning Egypt:
See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud
and is coming to Egypt.
The idols of Egypt tremble before him,
and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them.

Do you think God literally hopped on a cloud and rode down to Egypt and kicked over their idols? Chapter 20 shows how God used the Assyrians to bring His wrath upon Egypt.

Now does this have any similarity to you:

Mark 14:61-62: Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?”
62”I am,” said Jesus. “And YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

BTW, Jesus said “you.”


586 posted on 11/10/2007 2:11:27 PM PST by tabsternager
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To: wmfights; 1000 silverlings; fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; Lee N. Field; Lord_Calvinus
Is this from apprx. 30 AD to 1030 AD. It doesn't seem to make sense. Following the 1,000 yr reign Satan is released the final battle occurs and New Jerusalem comes out of heaven.

I guess I should have also said that amils and postmils do not see the "thousand years" as a literal 365,000 day span of time. They see it as a symbol, just like all the other symbols in the book of Revelation.

There is no doubt believing the gospel does nothing but good. However, I don't believe Christianity as a whole is growing as fast as Islam.

Your timeframe could be too limited.

I don't believe the millennial kingdom has occurred so I guess that makes me a premillenialist.

There are some postmils who do not believe we are in the "thousand years" yet, but nevertheless believe it precedes the second coming.

587 posted on 11/10/2007 2:13:12 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [I John 4:2,3]

This verse is a confirmation of the Trinity.

Baloney -- this verse is a confirmation just exactly what Preterism is:

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." [II John 7]

How about you??? Do you claim that Jesus came in 70 AD but not in the flesh???

588 posted on 11/10/2007 2:13:59 PM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip
So did Jesus come in the flesh in 70 AD or did Jesus not come in the flesh in 70 AD???

Do you see Him?

589 posted on 11/10/2007 2:14:26 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: Uncle Chip
Sorry, I didn’t finish.

So did Jesus come in the flesh in 70 AD or did Jesus not come in the flesh in 70 AD???

Do you see Him? The coming in AD70 was not a physical coming. It was a temporal judgment against Israel patterned after many of the temporal judgment in the OT prophecies, e.g., Isaiah 13:1,9,10.

590 posted on 11/10/2007 2:16:58 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: topcat54

you are incapable of such exegetical work.

= = =

1. Sounds like a personal slam, to me.

2. I hope that doesn’t = not willing to mangle Scripture in the Replacementarian Rubber Bible fashion.


591 posted on 11/10/2007 2:47:05 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: topcat54; Uncle Chip; Iscool; fortheDeclaration; DarthVader; Alamo-Girl; airborne; ...
Amils generally believe that the "thousand years" spans the time from Christ's first coming to His second coming. Many postmils believe that as well, however postmils generally see progress in the positive effect of the gospel over time. That’s why some postmils believe that the "thousand years" begins sometime during the inter-advent age.

WOW. Boggles my mind. That one assertion . . .

either one . . . .

soooooooooooooooo

out of step with Scripture AND History

AND Current trends

MORE THAN SUFFICIENT to leave me wanting to wash with lye soap after getting near Replacementarian theology.

Rubber Bible is inadequate to describe such horrific UNBIBLICAL positions.

Have been prayerfully pondering what root lie(s) from hell are really at the foundation of the REPLACEMENTARIAN DECEPTION.

Would appreciate the END TIMES PING LIST'S INPUT ON THIS . . . especially Darth Vader et al . . .

Reading the above has been accompanied with insights dropped into my spirit along the following lines:

1. There's a subtle but effective slight of hand akin to satan's deception of Eve . . . YOU CAN BE AS GOD!

ESSENTIALLY, MAN is bettering the world and God is not very evident in any dramatic overt ways.

Does NOT sound like the GOD OF THE BIBLE; THE GOD OF THE ANGEL ARMIES I KNOW.

NOR does it sound like the VERY DRAMATIC CLOSING OF HISTORY AS WE'VE KNOWN IT AS OUTLINED IN THE BIBLE. But it sure shunts God aside and gives man hope in a Christianized version of that old secular humanism bit about BETTER LIVING THROUGH OUR OWN BOOTSTRAPS. What an endless set of horrors that has led to!

The globalist puppet masters are carrying that forward with tyrannical plans worse than any in history. God will have them all in derision. The world will be cleansed . . . by fire, this time. GOD'S FIRE. GOD OF THE ANGEL ARMIES.

I think it's enormously telling that the denominations that espouse such REPLACEMENTARIAN OUTRAGEOUSNESS

ARE THE VERY DENOMINATIONS WHICH PRIDE THEMSELVES IN HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS BUT DENY THE POWER THEREOF--though they'd certainly not put it that way--wrapping it instead in all manner of rationalizations from hell.

2. Satan set out to destroy whomever God favored from Cain and Abel on. He particularly upped the ante when God CHOSE TO BLESS ABRHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB's offspring. This twisting of Scripture provides excuse for treating Jacob's children as yet more "useless eaters" of no more consequence than any other "useless eaters" on the globe. Actually, a LOT more troublesome so we need to treat them particularly horridly is the globalist scheme. QUITE IN KEEPING with satan's schemes throughout history. Of course, the Contrarian Preterist position is utterly blind to these facts.

DEADLY Lies from hell can be that way when wrapped in theological hogwash.

ARE THERE OTHER ROOT LIES FROM HELL functioning as foundation for the REPLACEMENTARIAN DECEPTION?

592 posted on 11/10/2007 3:08:51 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: topcat54
The coming in AD70 was not a physical coming. It was a temporal judgment against Israel patterned after many of the temporal judgment in the OT prophecies, e.g., Isaiah 13:1,9,10.

Nonsense, the verse you are using in Matthew 24 says clearly:

"and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" [Mt 24:30]

You say that this was fulfilled when He came in 70 AD but His coming then was just not in the flesh. Well here is what John says about your confession:

"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [I John 4:2,3]

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." [II John 7]

593 posted on 11/10/2007 3:14:01 PM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: topcat54
Lu 21:27 and he shall appear, not in person, but in the power of his wrath and vengeance, on the Jewish nation which will be a full sign and proof of his being come: for the sense is, that when the above calamities shall be upon the civil state of that people, and there will be such changes in their ecclesiastical state it will be as clear a point, that Christ is come in the flesh, and that he is also come in his vengeance on that nation, for their rejection and crucifixion him, as if they had seen him appear in person in the heavens.

Trouble is, that's not what the verse says...

Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Trouble is, you don't believe what God said...So now you hafta find something which you think might fit...But you can't find it...

So along comes someone and invents a story line, which doesn't line up with anything biblically...And you tell us that you proved something by comparing scripture with scripture...

Trouble with that is, we read the Bible as well...You're not going to bluff us...

And when someone pins you down, you try to be slipperyier than a greased pig on ball bearings...

When Luke 21:27 does actually happen, and it will, EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM, PHYSICALLY...EVEN YOU...

594 posted on 11/10/2007 3:32:53 PM PST by Iscool
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To: topcat54; Uncle Chip; Iscool; fortheDeclaration; Alamo-Girl

WOW . . . shocking yet again.

Yet again Scripture has to endure being put through the

REPLACEMENTARIAN MANGLING TRANSMORGIFIER

to fit their RUBBER BIBLES

It still boggles my mind that anyone could believe such convoluted egg salad constructions on even fantasies, much less realities.

And folks who consider themselves Born Again? Christians???

THEY believe such goo from hell?

Truly shocking. Stunned yet again. Literally.

Folks really have no idea what is just around the corner.

Let’s see snippets of history from the RUBBER HISTORY BOOK

ANGELS WE HAVE HEARD ON HIGH

. . . well not really . . . those were the bluebirds of happiness whispering sweet ideas in Mary and Elizabeth’s heads during special . . . uh . . . meditations . . . errrr . . . dreams. That’s it.

Shepherds watching their flocks in fields at night ANGELS ANGELS ANGELS A CHORUS OF ANGELS

GLAD TIDINGS OF GREAT JOY.

. . . . not really . . .

Those were the burpings of sheep in a particularly coincidentally harmonious symphony fostered by the prosaic arrangement of pretty flowers they’d eaten earlier.

THREE WISE MEN FROM THE EAST bearing GOLD, FRANKENSENSE AND MYR
. . . . not really . . .

3 semi retired herders with nothing more significant than some stream polished rocks to lay beside an odd babe in a dirty manger.

MOUNT OF TRANSFIGURATION
. . . . not really . . .

Peter was briefly blinded and disoriented by bird drool from the sky while out strolling with The Rabbi . . . in a flash of crazed impetuousness he concocted quite a story for back at the campfire.

THE ASCENSION
. . . . not really . . .

Star Trek Enterprise gave Jesus a lift back to The Father since the Heavenly Elevator was broken and threw in some cloud effects because Captain Kirk knew God had a THING for clouds.

These examples from the REPLACEMENTARIAN RUBBER BIBLE are offered in an effort to help you understand that when the DRAMAS of the end times begin to unfold, the REPLACEMENTARIANS may be falling like flies and in deadly shock in higher percentages because their minds have been so shaped to expect the opposite. They won’t have much time to adjust.

God schedules drama well beyond fantasized capacities of a Hollyweed of the year 3001 so Replacementarians think interpretations from the Cro-Magnons. Go figure.


595 posted on 11/10/2007 3:34:26 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: wmfights

THERE YOU GO AGAIN

Confusing the REPLACEMENTARIANS

with TRUE HISTORY

and

TRUE BIBLE.

You should know they can only handle skim milk.

I hope you don’t EXPECT them to make sense! Have yet to see them make much sense—especially in the prophecy dept.

There are soooooooooooooo many DOZENS if not 100’s of SCRIPTURES—any ONE of which totally neuters their whole pile of fantasies. And they have no clue. Shocking.


596 posted on 11/10/2007 3:37:08 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Actually, I contend the opposite.

But I’m behind in other tasks.


597 posted on 11/10/2007 3:37:51 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: topcat54; Uncle Chip; Iscool

Do you see Him? The coming in AD70 was not a physical coming.

= = =

Hard to imagine Christians writing such with a straight face then believing it.

But I guess that would explain why the

JEWS DID NOT SEE HIM WHOM THEY HAD PIERCED . . . AND BELIEVE

LOL.

Sigh.


598 posted on 11/10/2007 3:40:07 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; P-Marlowe; xzins; fortheDeclaration; tabsternager

“But you said “all creation is under the curse”. Aren’t the righteous part of creation?”

Rom. 8:22-23, “For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”

Notice the “And not only they, but ourselves also,”, the “but” is explained by Paul here:

Gal 3:13, “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:”

It’s a whole lot like Jesus said in John 17:15-16, “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.”

We were once under the curse but Jesus became the curse for us, however we still labor because of the curse of creation. He won’t take us out of that until His return. So to answer your oblique question, the creation and its systems can’t progressively get better because we are here since, by election, only those chosen from the foundation of the earth are pardoned from the judgment of the curse that came on all of creation when Adam sinned and that won’t be relieved until the firey renovation.


599 posted on 11/10/2007 4:45:07 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Quix; All; Alamo-Girl; DarthVader; Iscool
Further ponderings on reading the above . . .

1. In Communist China . . . as well as in all the globalist documents I've ever read . . . accommodation is outlined with such churches--at least for a time--usually a very long time as witnessed in China. These churches and their REPLACEMENTARIAN, neutered-overtly-DRAMATIC-GOD theology fits Communist/globalist/socialst plans quite handily--particularly in terms of . . . drum roll . . .

!!!!CONTROL!!!!

MAN is again at the center of control--actually satan is--but man works as a great puppet for satan given that illusion of control.

But if a group or individual talk of God speaking to them directly via Holy Spirit or THE END TIMES or the SECOND COMING--then that's forbidden. That threatens CONTROL and the lies from hell about the wonderful GLOBAL VILLAGE being created . . . by MAN, of course.

2. Holy Spirit over the last decades and even now often warns groups in China and other places when the officials are going to stage a raid and so a meeting is not held or is held elsewhere--sometimes arranged totally and only by Holy Spirit speaking in His still small voice to the individuals HE wants there. That freaks the CONTROL FREAQUES out. AND DEMONSTRATES GOD'S SUPERNATURAL SUKPREME POWER THAT THEY CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT--MUCH AS END TIMES LITERAL PROPHECIES WITH GOD IN CONTROL freak out the Replacementarian perspective, evidently.

3. The globalists, humanists, secularists, Replacementarians all seem genetically allergic and horrified by

ANY

HINT

That there REALLY IS A DRAMATIC POWERFUL ALMIGHTY GOD OF THE ANGEL ARMIES as THE UNrubber Bible calls Him . . . WHO MOVES IN POWER AND MIGHT IN BEHALF OF THOSE WHO LOVE AND OBEY HIM.

Pharoah didn't handle it very well in spite of his God hardened heart.

Old Nebbie ended up eating grass like an animal and finally learned a shred of respect for ALMIGHTY GOD.

The current crop of globalists are a long way from respecting God Almighty even expecting HIM to LOSE at Armageddon! What idiocy.

But the Replacementarians scoff at the literal fulfillment of END TIMES prophecies QUITE IN CHORUS WITH

--THE SECULAR HUMANISTS, ATHEISTS
--SATANISTS
--GLOBALISTS
--HINDUS
--etc.

Just can't happen in their mangled construction on reality.

Stay tuned.

EVERY LAST WORD AND TINY PUNCTUATION POINT WILL BE FULFILLED TO THE LETTER. Some will be vividly literal only. Some vividly literal and symbolic. Some probably in mixtures we can't articulate.

GOD WILL BE MAGNIFIED. GOD'S POWER AND MAJESTY WILL BE DISPLAYED ON THIS GLOBE IN OUR ERA AS NEVER BEFORE IN RECORDED HISTORY AS WE KNOW IT.

THEN

the Replacementarians will have nothing to rebut with.

600 posted on 11/10/2007 5:00:41 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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