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To: topcat54
"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [I John 4:2,3]

So did Jesus come in the flesh in 70 AD or did Jesus not come in the flesh in 70 AD???

581 posted on 11/10/2007 12:40:12 PM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip; topcat54; 1000 silverlings; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; Lee N. Field; tabsternager; ...
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [I John 4:2,3]

This verse is a confirmation of the Trinity. As God ordained from before the foundation of the world, Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man, was born, died and rose to pay for our sins, the truth of which is made known to us by the Holy Spirit.

Dispensationalists really seem to weaken the message of the Gospel, IMO. They postpone what is already in front of our faces -- Christ risen, which all men are commanded to believe today.

Topcat's explanation of Christ "coming in the clouds" makes perfect sense when compared with other Scripture.

What are the effects of believing dispensationalism other than trepidation, anxiety and forsaking the preaching of the Gospel to all men, Jews included.

How can Christians go wrong in believing Christ reigns today?

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Col. 1:16-17

Christians prosper by the understanding that all existence is by and for and through Jesus Christ. It's the temporal world that loathes that fact, and so it has concocted any number of misdirections to take our eyes off the only truth in this life -- Jesus Christ.

As I've said before, I had never even heard much about dispensationalism until I came to this forum. It continues to be a source of perplexity and apparent contradiction to God's word and His mandate to "be not afraid; only believe" (Mark 5:36).

Christ rose from the dead, and nothing in this world has been the same since.

"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." -- Hebrews 9:24-28

This is what I know of salvation. Christ came and claimed His own, yesterday, today and tomorrow, until He physically returns at the end of history when He will judge us either condemned in our sins or acquitted by His atonement.

The literalist/allegorist dichotomy is a Chinese finger puzzle. It's not real. Sometimes the Bible speaks literally, and sometimes figuratively. What is true is that the Son, Jesus Christ, is in heaven at the right hand of God, the Father, awaiting His sheep while God the Holy Spirit works in time to bring about God's purpose in creation, the redemption of all whom He has loved from before the foundation of the world.

And it seems obvious to me that the more the word of God is preached, the greater the number of Christians in this world (exactly as many as were appointed to eternal life), and thus the more God's grace will fill the planet. How can that be a bad way to view this life?

583 posted on 11/10/2007 1:41:31 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Uncle Chip; topcat54; 1000 silverlings; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; Lee N. Field

Isaiah 19:1:
“So did Jesus come in the flesh in 70 AD or did Jesus not come in the flesh in 70 AD???”

You’ve probably seen this before — compare this judgment against Egypt that was fulfilled:

Isaiah 19
A Prophecy About Egypt
1 An oracle concerning Egypt:
See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud
and is coming to Egypt.
The idols of Egypt tremble before him,
and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them.

Do you think God literally hopped on a cloud and rode down to Egypt and kicked over their idols? Chapter 20 shows how God used the Assyrians to bring His wrath upon Egypt.

Now does this have any similarity to you:

Mark 14:61-62: Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?”
62”I am,” said Jesus. “And YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

BTW, Jesus said “you.”


586 posted on 11/10/2007 2:11:27 PM PST by tabsternager
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To: Uncle Chip
So did Jesus come in the flesh in 70 AD or did Jesus not come in the flesh in 70 AD???

Do you see Him?

589 posted on 11/10/2007 2:14:26 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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