Posted on 09/24/2007 3:11:29 PM PDT by presidio9
A new article by an Italian medical professor speculates the death of Pope John Paul the Second was caused by euthanasia. According to "TIME" magazine, an intensive care specialist says the Pope's death would be considered euthanasia by standards set by the Catholic Church. The doctor bases her conclusion on press reports and a book written by the Pope's physician. She says the decision not to insert a feeding tube until just a few days before his death accelerated the death of the ailing pontiff. Plus, the doctor believes the Pope himself made the decision not to insert the tube after consulting with medical professionals. He had been hospitalized twice before his 2005 death. Catholics are told to take any effort to prolong life. The article appears in an Italian magazine critical of the church's stance on medical ethics. The doctor says she decided to revisit the Pope's death after a recent ruling by the Catholic Church on euthanasia.
Well it was Time something. There was a FoxNewsChannel story about it early this morning.
The Grandmother I speak of was 100 years old, bordering on 101. She had DOUBLE LUNG pneumonia. She had made it very clear to NEVER go to heroic efforts to save her life. Well the doctors were pressuring us to insert a feeding tube - she fought it. She began with liquid foods and slowly kept it down. She totally recovered and went back on to solid foods. A few months later she gently died of heart failure. God takes people when HE is ready.
You equated not eating to God's will. And I asked if that applies to anorexics.
Game, set, match?
I think you and your siblings did exactly the right thing. Why force your mother to live any longer when she was clearly ready to go? She made the decision on her own; she did not want any of you to be put into a position to make a difficult medical decision for her, later on.
My Dad died peacefully in his own bed just four weeks ago today; we (and his doc) recognized the inevitable and got him on Home Hospice for his final two weeks....a great service which Medicare provided.
You're right about the lack of desire for nutrition.
Pop was comfortable, relaxing/pain meds were on hand for the caregivers, and we don't regret this route one iota.
That's a lie sprouting from your anti-Catholic hate.
I am Bible based. I am Roman Catholic.
Losing a parent is never easy. But you have to look at it from the perspective of an ill, 85 year old person. At that point, most spouses, siblings, friends have died or are close. Most people that age have made peace with death. When they do that, death is not a horrible thing but a peace. It is us, the ones left behind, for whom it is sad.
When my grandmother died, I was glad she lived on her own until just a couple of months before. And I was glad she didn’t go on and on the way she was.
I lost my Dad 2 years ago, at the age of 73. He was hospitalized upstate on a Tues, my sis went to see him Wed and I went Thurs. On the way home, I told my husband “I don’t think he’s going to be with us very much longer and if that’s the case, I want it to be quick. I don’t want him to linger for a year, weak and in pain.” He was gone the next day before noon. Conversely, I watched my mother in law for a couple of years. She was off and on a ventilator, in and out of the hospital and nursing homes (she was only in her 60s), having to be fed and changed and bathed.
I realized then that there are worse things than death. Like being totally dependent on others to even wipe your tush. Urinating in bed in adult diapers when you are aware of it. Being unable to roll over in bed or scratch your nose when it itches. Being helpless and knowing it. Not being able to enjoy sitting on a front porch or take a walk or even sit at a dinner table with your family. My father would have hated -absolutely HATED-not being able to drive or visit or do what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it. To be dependent and have to have us drive him somewhere or change his diapers or be put in a nursing home if needed. And as much as I would have done whatever needed to be done, I would have hated to see him like that. I am so glad he went quickly, the way he did, that he didn’t go the way my mother in law did, lingeringly and in pain.
To lose independence, to be in pain, is hard. Your mother knew it was time. She had 85 years, a goodly amount of time and she was ready. It’s the ones left behind that want to say “I wanted more time!” But that’s just the selfish part of us. Part of loving is knowing when to let go.
I heard this on CNN early this morning and was quite peeved about it. That is a false statement and the newsbabe wasn't even aware of it.
No. That’s not what I said.
Perhaps you need ti revisit 1st grade?
Same here. My Dad was very specific in his talks with me, nothing to keep him alive, no feeding tube, ventilator, nothing. He was 78 when he died and less than 36 hours before he died, had said “I’m ready now, I wasn’t ready before, but I’m ready now.” A few minutes later, the nurse called me into the hall, they wanted to put a pik in him to keep him hydrated. I said no. She explained that it would keep him hydrated. I said I’d talk to his doctor when I got home and even his doctor said we should allow the pik (not sure if I have the name correct). I asked why, how long would that keep him alive, and he said a week or two more maybe. So I called the nurse across the street from my parents, a neighbor and she was my mom’s ICU nurse a week and a half before, and she told me that he was dying and it would prolong his life for a few days at most. She explained the process of dying a patient goes through and I decided not to allow the pik or anything else. The next day, they took him down for an MRI which I specifically told them not to do, no more tests, and sedated him. He died during the night, since the sedation slowed down his breathing but it probably also eased his pain since the man was in pain for the last 7 months of his life at least. He was in and out then and his death was peaceful.
My Mom went on hospice about 48 hours before she died here at home. She woke up on a Friday morning begging me to stop the pain, saying she couldn’t bear the burden anymore. So I called hospice, they were here within a couple of hours, priest came and gave her Last Rights which she participated in, morphine here a couple hours later and she died that Sunday night. She was happy and alert during most of those 48 hours and died right after I finished reciting the Rosary to her and after she mouthed “I love you”. It was beautiful. She was 85, 4 months shy of 86.
I’m a Catholic and feeding tubes are not required for those who are dying. I’m not sure how the Pope’s doctor can make that statement about the Catholic Church teachings and equate it with Euthanasia.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, and for your kind words.
Why should it be such a shocking thing, then, for the Pope to refuse a feeding tube? If he knew he was ready to go?
What’s really the point of the Time article?
Anything to bash religions of all types.
I assume you mean 'anything to bash Catholicism/Christianity'. Surely you're not suggesting that there are many articles bashing the "Religion of Peace".
Anorexics are folks suffering from a psychological problem that makes them think that, no matter how thin they get, they are still fat. That is, as you well know, a different situation than a person who is dying, nothing can stop it, and THEY decide to NOT be fed artificially in a vain attempt by others to prolong life. The Pope knew he was dying, and that inserting a feeding tube wasn’t going to stop that. He just chose, for himself, not to do that, and the Church does not require it for anyone.
Your description - “things worse than death” - actually makes me glad the Pope refused a feeding tube.
Stupid bloody media.
Ah, now your true nature erupts (as it always does when Catholics call you out on it).
Oh, and spare me the hategram-by-Freepmail like last time. I’ll post it publicly...right here.
Apparently the doctor making the assertion is trying to score political points, using speculation about the Pope's death. The doctor is trying to make a case for euthanasia by supposing that the Pope's doctors hastened his death by not inserting the feeding tube, so euthanasia must be OK, because hey, look, the Pope did it!
Apparently the doctor does not know that the Church does not REQUIRE that any artificial or extraordinary means be employed to prolong life when death is imminent, as the case was with the Pope, and he made that decision for himself.
I attended a family friend’s funeral last week and talked to my husband’s cousin there about her mother. She’s 87, been very sick this summer, shuttled back and forth from nursing home to hospital. This daughter cared for her at home up until about June, when she no longer had the knowledge or ability to care for her herself. She said “We got Hospice for Mom. She’s confused, doesn’t know who I am, she’s scared and in pain. She’s being kept comfortable now and we’re not doing anything else but that. Because to do anything else would just be torturing her.”
I understand that completely. You and your siblings should make peace with the idea that your mom knew what was best for her, even though it was hard for you guys. I know...it seems like our parents will always be there, strong and guiding. She was ready though, you did nothing wrong and neither did she, for knowing it was time. Death is natural, it happens to all of us as surely as being born does.
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