Posted on 07/10/2007 8:57:47 AM PDT by f150sound
LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.
In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II's ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.
It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."
"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.
You don't seem to grasp the concept, do you? Even the Apostles themselves sinned, why would you think their successor would be without flaw?
I’m just wondering what the RC freepers would say if another brand of Christianity made such statements regarding them.
Me, I expect such arrogance from your church and am quite used to it.
You apparently interpret it differently than those who were present when Jesus uttered the words. They were the ones who went forth, after being anointed by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and proclaimed Jesus as Lord and the Son of God, thus founding the Church from which all other Christian churches came, whether those churches want to accept that, or not.
No, it's Christ in His sovereign power who has decreed the identity, structure and authority of His Church.
to believe one who can not partake in sacrament, or partakes in groups which the RCC judges does not provide proper sacrament, or prays in silence for fear of death or injury is one who can not be saved
The Catholic Church does not teach that such a person cannot be saved. It is the Church's position that all men may be saved.
bump
Recall that he healed Samaritan woman and a Roman Centurion’s servant, both of whom were “unclean”............
For any one denomination to claim to be "the one true church" denies even the words of our Lord and Savior.
Better double check from the inerrant Word of God, the Holy Bible before making those statements.
Better yet, read about the words of Martin Luther as to why he was leaving "the one true church" you might, just might have pause to reflect.
On the other hand,
Matthew 7:16 (New International Version)
16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Which Church has been more successful, which one has gotten the divine blessing of most fruit?
Proverbs 3:5 (New International Version)
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
Try not to assume you understand what God meant in those passages you cited to your ex-boyfriend. Leave it to the experts who have the proven inspiration of God.
I, on the other hand, as a convert (Vacation Bible School, Sunday School and PSR teacher) went over the edge last night when it was announced on EWTN. If this is Benedict’s stab at infallibility as to faith and morals, I’m praying the Holy Spirit pings him up-side the head but good. I love my faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and will always give him my heart and soul, but with this latest epistle, I'm thinking Benedict -- not so much.
LOL!The Catholic Church has constantly been under attack from the very beginning
In fact the persecution of the Church is even Scriptural
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus promises the gates of Hell would never prevail against the Church.
No matter how sinful its members conduct themselves, Jesus promised that the gates of death will never prevail against the Church.
The Church was called Catholic
Here is the proof
“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
“[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished.” Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2 (A.D. 155).
The Orthodox make this sentiment known routinely.
Other Christians routinely state that Catholics aren't even Christians - a far harsher claim than the Pope is making here.
Me, I expect such arrogance from your church and am quite used to it.
It's not a matter of arrogance - why would someone belong to a Church unless they believed that their Church was the one Christ founded?
Why is it so hard to understand that Christ founded a Church and that Catholics believe their Church to be that one which He founded?
The “Church of God” is not a denominational organization or religious group established and controlled by human beings. It is a Divine Institution organized and controlled by God Himself. God has never turned over the spiritual leadership of His Church to any human control. The “Church of God” is called out group of God’s people... joined together by one purpose or goal of worship and service to God. The “head” of the church is Christ. Every other part operates under the leadership of the head. Each member is separate, yet they are all unified in one purpose and love to the exalting of the name of Christ. Unless you believe Christ has called and only has ordained RCC as that being the true representative of his word, the Church of God, then you too my friend have been blinded by the arrogance and power which man craves. It is up to Christ to call those to be the representative of his Church and the teachers...Not those who simply choose to be Catholic...”But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.”...God calls those to be in his Church, not a church created by man.
“For as the (physical) body is one and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way.” 1 Corinthians 12:12- 31
Another stunning example of misinterpretation.
You don't understand the difference between:
1. We are Christ's church (excluding all others)
and
2. We are part of Christ's one true church and Christ alone is the head of His church and He alone will determine who is granted eternal life.
???
That is not what he is saying at all. But believe AP if you like.
Why? As I showed, this is nothing new, but yet another re-statement of constant teaching.
Groups of Christians who do not have Apostolic Sucession and valid sacraments are not, by our definition, "churches."
That doesn't mean they are worthless or all going to hell. It's merely making a distinction between those who have recourse to the sacraments (besides Baptism) Jesus instituted and those who do not. Don't you think sacraments are important?
Unity is a bad thing? You think Christ wants to see us divided and bickering??
No kidding. Has anyone bothered to read what the document actually says?
And they were wrong. There are clueless people everywhere.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.