Posted on 07/10/2007 8:57:47 AM PDT by f150sound
LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.
In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II's ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.
It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."
"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.
Apparently, it is not. Every now and then I am right about something.
I belong to a church as defined by the Bible.
Saving grace comes from God, not a sacrament (works).
Jesus paid it all. In Him I put my faith.
It's a little frustrating to see the dearth of critical thinking on threads like these.
Very little sign of intelligent disagreement here.
Almost everyone is wilfully ignoring what was actually said.
Catholics shouldn’t date Protestants, actually.
Correct. And God bestows His grace to those who are faithful to His Son by means of the sacraments - including the Mass.
A Catholics Mass (works) has no power of salvation.
The Mass is the Sacrifice on Calvary.
It is the work of Jesus Christ, not of men, and Christ's work is indeed the power of salvation to those who believe.
As will our cannibalism. Don’t forget that little detail about us Catholics.
Just to second wideawake's response, there is a Catholic dogma (and thus infallible) that states: "Outside the Church there is no salvation."
But this dogma has never been taken to mean that only people *listed on the parish rolls* will go to heaven. There is a canonized saint, St. Emerentiana, who was never actually baptized...she died a catechumen and was never received into the Church formally. Yet we know beyond all doubt that she is in heaven.
Anyway, with a very few exceptions (JW's, Mormons, etc), Protestant baptisms are recognized as valid by the Catholic Church. That means that every Protestant is *actually* a baptized member of the (Catholic) Church, whether he or she knows it, admits it, or not.
Now that doesn't mean Protestants automatically go to heaven--we don't believe in once saved always saved. And we have to admit that it is much much *harder* for Protestants to get to heaven because those denominations lack the sacraments that Christ instituted to help us get to heaven (no Confession, no Communion).
So a personal in a denomination (or even a perfect pagan) CAN be saved...but IF they are, that only happens because somehow, someway, unknown perhaps to anyone on this earth, they were invisibly united to the visible Catholic Church.
I hope that makes sense...it's a confusing issue even to Catholics.
So why do you care if the Catholic Church defines "church" differently? Do you think the Catholic Church has some power to affect your life and salvation?
I'd love to watch you try to prove that.
Yes to the first part. But a sacrament is not a work of men. It is a work of Christ *through* men. Big difference.
She thought she should learn something about them considering she was at a university with something like a 25% Catholic student body.
So, foolishly as it turned out, I took her to visit with a friend or two at a student gathering place. My good buddy (a Catholic with a brother who was a priest no less) had his sister there, and only then did I discover she thought it was OK for her to date Protestants, and why did I bring that girl along, and lord was she mad ~ like a wet hen, but she held it in good and you could only see a bit of steam ~ woman turned beet red I tell you.
End of story.
The lesson was learned ~ don't introduce cute babes to anybody.
*************
Heh. Thanks for the reminder. :)
I wouldn't say the priests busted for molesting young boys are on a line of succession from the apostles...
Do you or did you ever use the term “father” in regards to your biological father, or did you in fact call him by his first name? If you did use the term, then it seems you’re steeped in sin. Shame on you.
It is man in his arrogance who has decreed the need to define what church group or people who are those to provide the sacraments. Man is simply here to teach the word of the Lord, to be living examples of our Lord’s teaching’s. The Bible tells me so long as I hear the word, accept the word I can be saved. I am sure Jesus is happy we practice and show his faith through various sacrament, praise his name, but to believe one who can not partake in sacrament, or partakes in groups which the RCC judges does not provide proper sacrament, or prays in silence for fear of death or injury is one who can not be saved is against what Jesus taught us. It is sad to think that man believes they are the one to judge how one attains eternal life based on what "church" provides us the "Jesus seal of approval sacrament" when Jesus has already told us.
Good luck getting Protestants to understand a concept like the Incarnation. They might believe God took on matter in the person of Christ, but they don't seem to grasp the implications.
What the ‘custom’ of other countries is, is not the same as the doctrine of the Church.
LOL! No, just stating the obvious.
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