California bishop responds to lay group (re Tridentine Mass)

Renew America ^ | September 14, 2006 | Matt C. Abbott

[NYer]

In the ongoing saga in the Diocese of Orange, Calif., Bishop Tod Brown has formally responded to the Catholic lay group Restore the Sacred. The text of the bishop's letter (dated September 6, 2006), which was sent to a member of Restore the Sacred, is as follows:

Dear [Name Withheld],



I have been reflecting on the meeting I had with you and others from St. Mary's by the Sea Parish on the 10th of July. I was impressed by the love for our Catholic faith and the dedication to St. Mary's by the Sea parish that all of you manifested. You helped me to understand your concerns more fully and I appreciated the clear and respectful way that you answered my questions.



As I told you I would, I directed Father Martin Tran to present in your parish bulletin a fuller, and I trust, acceptable apology and clarification of his views on obedience, mortal sin, and kneeling. He has done this and has assured me that he is hoping to be able to work with you and all those who attend the parish in a respectful and productive manner.



One of the things that came out clearly in your description of the "traditions of St. Mary's" was that I and my predecessors did you no service when we allowed Fr. Johnson to deviate from the liturgical norms set out by church authority. You feel now a sense of betrayal and your request for a restoration of what you consider nine fundamental past traditions reflects your desire to hold on to an experience that has, in some important ways, nourished your faith over a long period of time. I apologize for the hurt and misunderstanding this has caused.



That having been said, let me address the particular requests you made in your document and in your presentation:



• The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has determined that in the United States, Holy Communion is received standing and that the appropriate sign of respect is a bow of the head before the Sacrament. The Diocese of Orange is obliged to observe this norm. It is helpful to reflect on why the Church in the United States has mandated this posture: standing is appropriate for those who are risen with Christ and who seek the things that are above. As people united in faith, we are also united in our common posture which serves to foster the intention and spiritual attitude of being one in Christ.
  
  

• In this diocese I have determined that the faithful will stand from the Great Amen until after receiving Holy Communion. This posture reflects our humble gratitude for the great things God has done in creating and redeeming us. We also recognize the eschatological significance of standing as we look forward to the day when Christ will come again and pray that Christ may find us worthy to stand before Him. After the reception of communion, each participant is free to kneel or sit, however they choose.
  
  

• The Sign of Peace is exchanged as a token of Christian communion, as a sign of our fellowship and unity before we partake in the ultimate sign of our unity, the Body and Blood of Christ. The custom of our culture would commonly be shaking hands, though the manner of the exchange is left up to the individual. It is important, however, that the priest celebrant express with the faithful gathered their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before partaking in Holy Communion.
  
  

• The participation of women as altar servers, cantors, and lectors, is a sign of the basic equality of every baptized member of Christ: we are all called to service in light of our God given gifts. It has also been determined in 1971 by the Bishop's Committee on the Liturgy in consultation with the Vatican, that this is a legitimate liturgical practice. To remove women from the sanctuary would denigrate the fundamental dignity of women ad their complementary role in God's created world.
  
  

• It is the purview of the local administrator whether or not the celebrants at Masses should have the assistance of extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist and the placement and furnishings of the sanctuary. He is also responsible for overseeing the selection of all music to be used at parish liturgies; I refer you to him about these matters.
  
  

• In view of the context of so much negative publicity, public protests and controversy associated with the liturgy at St. Mary's by the Sea, I judge that the restoration of the Tridentine Mass at your parish at this time would only cause greater disunity and confusion. Although you may not be aware of it, there are a considerable number of parishioners who are grateful for the changes that brought their parish in conformity with other parishes in our Diocese. They and the people of the Diocese generally would likely view permission for the Tridentine Mass so close upon the protests as nothing less than a capitulation to a special interest group. This is not to say that, sometime in the future, there may be an appropriate time when the question can be raised again.
  
  

My decision on these requests is based upon my ecclesiology. What unifies us most is the Blessed Sacrament that we share at Mass and, most significantly, in the reception of communion. This is where there should be some uniformity in our life as Catholics. Although there is room for variety in music, preaching and the way these rights are celebrated, these all must adhere to the backbone of liturgical legislation set down by the church. Outside the Mass, there is great room for other rites and prayer forms (Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, 40 Hours devotions, the Liturgy of the Hours, novenas, etc.) which can be done in the "traditional" manner and with the sacred music that is so dear to you. There are even adaptations approved for the Liturgy of the Eucharist (Eucharistic processions, which I think you have had in the past, is one example) which you may wish to consider with Fr. Martin.



I recognize that this letter is likely a disappointment to you. You were hoping for so much more. Be assured that my decisions mean you no disrespect. On the contrary, I hope my clarity makes it possible for us, should you choose, to work together to preserve what you love about the Catholic Church in ways that match our liturgical norms.



In Christ Our Savior,



Most Reverend Tod D. Brown
Bishop of the Diocese of Orange

[dsc]

"I'm as much a part of Jesus' church as you are."

Well, no, sorry. Inasmuch as you reject some of the Sacraments and blessings that Our Lord has given us, you are not in *full* communion.

[FJ290]

The word "church" is a translation of the Greek "ekklesia," which means "those who are called out."

So what? That doesn't prove that the Catholic Church is a denomination.

I'm as much a part of Jesus' church as you are. In as much as I am in communion with Jesus, I am in communion with His church. It's His Spirit in us which unifies us, not some outward allegience to a denominational subset of the church.

If Jesus' Spirit unifies us, why did you immediately start in this thread with making comments like you did? That certainly wasn't in the spirit of unity, my friend.

Jesus didn't establish denominations BTW. Remember His prayer in the Garden that we all be ONE?

[Petrosius]

It is not mere hair splitting. Despite the claim of sola scriptura of relying only on the plain words of scripture, the theory of consubstantiation arose from a lack of faith in the simple words of our Lord. It was an attempt to rationalize what seemed contradictory to human reason. It was also a denial of the teaching authority of the Church. It might have been a valid concept before the Church defined it, but transubstantiation was taught (though not by name) by the early Fathers and declared doctrine 300 years before Martin Luther. One of the results of the theory of consubstantiation was doubt concerning the abiding or continuing presence of the Body and Blood of our Lord in the reserved Sacrament. I believe that some Lutherans would say "yes" and others "no".

[FJ290]

After reading your link regarding denominations, it really points out how far afield from the original Catholic Church the Christian religion has come. As Martin Luther said on his deathbed (I'm paraphrasing here) now any Milkmaid can start a new religion. Even Martin Luther had a momentary vision of what was to become.

Quote from Luther sounds about right. I do recall reading where he was bereft concerning the squabbles and splits that occured.

[flaglady47]

One of the results of the theory of consubstantiation was doubt concerning the abiding or continuing presence of the Body and Blood of our Lord in the reserved Sacrament. I believe that some Lutherans would say "yes" and others "no".

Thanks for the info. I could have sworn the LCMS believed in transubstantiation, not consubstantiation, but I might be wrong. I was very young then and can't remember. Wish I still had my Lutheran catechism. Could go on-line, but that would be the modern version, not what was in existence when I was growing up.

[flaglady47]

Wouldn't dream of it. Please do horn in on our family squabble.

Have been doing so already. And, by the way, I'm part of the family, so I can squabble to my heart's content, although you are an embarrassment to the family. Were you the black sheep?

[Antoninus]

I wonder sometimes, if bishops/cardinals like him might in fact be working for the other team.

If memory serves, he's one of the Mahoney boys. There's been a number of scandals in the Diocese of Orange--at least one involving the punishing of parents who objected to a Catholic grade school accepting the purchased children of homosexual activists.

[dsc]

"I'm part of the family"

Are you, then.

[BlackElk]

I am not trying to stifle your speech. I simply object to the bad manners of those not Catholic who deem it their responsibility to instruct Catholics as to the internal business of our Church which is not theirs or apparently yours. That objection is MY free speech and its expression in no way stifles yours. Get it????? You may well have a right to express yourself but conservatives are generally sophisticated enough to grasp that free speech and a right to be free of enthusiastic criticism in response are two clean different things.

If you or anyone else chooses to hurl ignorant insults at my Church, you are not entitled to be emotionally cuddled in return by members of that Church.

I could have a lot of fun here over the Episcopalian soi disant bishop Vicki Gene Robinson or over the Rev. Messrs. Jimmy Swaggert or Jim Bakker but I do not because they are absolutely none of my Catholic business. I leave any criticism of them to the Episcopalians in the case of Robinson and the Assemblies of God members as to the other two.

Your only partially valid analogy is to the Jewish faith as opposed to Jewish ancestry. Choosing to be or to remain a Jew or a Catholic is a matter of choice not an immutable condition of ancestry. If someone is born black, born Hispanic or born of Jewish ancestry and you were to criticize them as to their respective ancestries, you would be a flat out bigot. If you disagree with Roman Catholicism or Judaism, feel free (we are a free country and Catholics believe very strongly in free will and are not, trust me, really anxious to draft anyone much less you) but, if you choose to exercise "free speech" by attacking either Catholicism or Judaism, do not whine when Catholics or Jews return verbal fire in their own respective exercises in "free speech" as to what is none of your non-Catholic or non-Jewish business.

I make an exception as to Islam during the War on Terror but last I checked, neither Catholicism nor Judaism have declared war on my country.

You can form whatever opinions you like as to Catholicism or Judaism. If you are rude enough to express those opinions in attacks on either faith, get your asbestos undies ready, honey. Nothing protects your "free speech" or that of the poster to whom I was responding any more than mine is protected.

[BlackElk]

See #109 which is meant also for you as a refugee.

[BlackElk]

In your case, it is the car wreck checking out the drivers.

[BlackElk]

B-16 has also gone through the quisling foreign policy types in the Curia like a hot knife through butter. Great quote from the 14th Century Byzantine emperor. Who says we can't be a bit ecumenical?????

Bornacatholic seems to be MIA. Any idea as to why private or public?

[Maeve]

This bishop is an evil pig.

I have no time for this crap.

May God confound every foul evil thing he tries to do as well as every stupid and misguided step he takes, and May the Lord God the Holy Spirit remove this bishop as soon as possible from his see.

I am ready to offer a course on impreccatory prayer........

[Maeve]

He's one of the Mahony girls.

[Tax-chick]

You may well have a right to express yourself but conservatives are generally sophisticated enough to grasp that free speech and a right to be free of enthusiastic criticism in response are two clean different things. If you or anyone else chooses to hurl ignorant insults at my Church, you are not entitled to be emotionally cuddled in return by members of that Church.

A marvelously cogent statement of a point that should NOT have to be made to any conservative!

"Your right to free speech does not cancel my right to tell you to shut up. My right to tell you to shut up doesn't mean you HAVE to shut up."

[ninenot]

Heh.

B-16 is truly a gift from God. Ad multos annos to him--he's already made noises about his mortality, but let's hope he's able to make a few more moves on the chessboard before retirement.

oremus.

No ideas about Born...

[JOEBURNES2006]

THE HERESY MODERNISM IS IN THE CHURCH JUST AS ST. PIUS X WARNNED US ABOUT. ALL THE DOUBLE TALK ABOUT STANDING BEING LIKE THE RISEN CHRIST-LOL-I GUESS WHEN GOD TOLD MOSES TO REMOVE HIS SANDLES AND KNEEL FOR THIS IS HOLY GROUND HE WAS MISTAKEN---AND AS FOR EVERONE NEEDING TO DO THINGS ALIKE FOR UNITY I AGREE LETS GO BACK TO THE TRIDENTINE MASS AND BE LIKE ALL CATHOLICS WHERE FOR 1700 YEARS -----NOT LIKE PROTESTANTS----GOD BLESS THE SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS X

[trisham]

THE HERESY MODERNISM IS IN THE CHURCH JUST AS ST. PIUS X WARNNED US ABOUT. ALL THE DOUBLE TALK ABOUT STANDING BEING LIKE THE RISEN CHRIST-LOL-I GUESS WHEN GOD TOLD MOSES TO REMOVE HIS SANDLES AND KNEEL FOR THIS IS HOLY GROUND HE WAS MISTAKEN---AND AS FOR EVERONE NEEDING TO DO THINGS ALIKE FOR UNITY I AGREE LETS GO BACK TO THE TRIDENTINE MASS AND BE LIKE ALL CATHOLICS WHERE FOR 1700 YEARS -----NOT LIKE PROTESTANTS----GOD BLESS THE SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS X

**************

Oy. Are you serious?

[Carolina]

Please stop using all caps.