Posted on 04/20/2006 11:16:00 AM PDT by Gamecock
Horsefeathers. (I'd use a stronger epithet, but the Religion Mod doesn't like scatological objections).
As a Calvinist, I certainly believe that it is accurate, but it is either mistaken or duplicitious to conflate Calvinism with the fundamentals of Christianity.
Spurgeon said that we can't preach the gospel without preaching particular redemption, unconditional election, et al? News to Paul, who preached Christ crucified. News to thousands of evangelists for whom Calvinism might influence what they do, but needs never be explicitly mentioned to accurately convey the Gospel - that God saves sinners by Christ's death and resurrection.
It's a silly argument - but one too many Calvinists make - to say "Calvinism is the gospel." I think this argument results from insecurity. The only explanation I can find for overstating one's case to that extent is that you're not fully convinced by Calvinism, so you feel you must be more strident to cover your concerns up.
read the whole article!
It's useful only to rebut the Dave Hunt argument that Spurgeon wasn't a Calvinist - as though I give a flying leap whether some 19th-century Baptist was or was not a Calvinist. Too frequetly, however, it's trotted out by Calvinists as an authority to prove "Calvinism-is-the-Gospel." Frankly, I find that argument offensive.
I spend my time with people who argue for a living. There are times when the argument is so bad, the only rebuttal that needs to be said is a mild profanity. "Give the fool the answer his folly deserves."
We're adults here. No one's virigin ears will be harmed by a mild profanity like "crap" or "ass." None of us will be offended by use of one of those mild profanities. Frankly, I find the censorship to be much more offensive than any minor profanity. Now, JimRob's house, JimRob's rules - but if it is really one of his rules to ban "crap," I have to argue that rule is ill-advised.
not just the quote! - the article!
"but it is either mistaken or duplicitious to conflate Calvinism with the fundamentals of Christianity."
Thank you.
Spurgeon had faults and was not perfect. Mostly because, NO ONE IS PERFECT, EXCEPT GOD. So, if A PERSON chooses to believe onself to be perfect, then, you guessed it, they are gonna find fault in everybody's belief, except theirs...
Religious freedom only applied to Protestants. If you were a Catholic you had no place in society. Catholics in New Hampshire didn't even have the right to vote until after the Civil War.
Any Catholic priest who entered Calvinist Massachusetts during the 17th century was liable for death.
Perhaps I should clarify myself. Calvinism of the 16th and 17th centuries.
Calvinism was so abhorrent to its adherents that only the most zealous stayed. Areas of America and Europe that once had heavy Calvinist populations today are the most secular.
New England, France, Holland, Switzerland, Scotland, etc.
Besides Puritan Massachusetts all I need to do is look how tolerant Oliver Cromwell and his ultra-Calvinist Roundheads were to the Catholics in England, Scotland and Ireland.
Jansenism, aka Catholc Calvinism, in part, occasioned the French Revolution as a reaction to it.
Fundamentalist Calvinism is tolerant, just as long as you are a Calvinist.
"You are correct with the consequences of my logic."
Well, you just made God's job easier. Now He doesn't have to look at the hearts or minds of creation. All He has to do is look at the labels.
Interesting that Paul didn't label them counterfeits,
1Cr 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided?
He was just happy that Christ was preached,
Phl 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Do you or the Catholic Church as it now stands believe Augustine's statement-that faith is only given as a gift to a few?
He didn't say that it was "only given as a gift to a few"; he just said that it wasn't given to everyone.
It's self-evident that not everyone receives the gift of faith, because not everyone has it.
We would differ with St. Augustine, in that we would hold that sufficient grace for salvation is offered to all men (but not always equally, and those who are reprobated are those who choose to resist it). Of course grace precedes faith and inspires it.
Do you now agree with Augustine's statement in the same work you quote that the OT Book of Wisdom is canonical scripture? ;-)
Fundamentalist Catholics aren't exactly friendly to non-Catholics. What was it that St. Cyprian said? Something like ex ecclesia nulla salus? Then there was Pope Bonifice, that there can be no salvation unless one is subject to the Pope who sits in the chair of St. Peter? Leaves all Protestants and Orthodox Christians in the cold.
Let's not pretend Calvinist fundamentalists have a corner on Christian intolerance. There are intolerant Calvinists, intolerant Baptists, intolerant Catholics, and intolerant Plymouth Brethren. Who gives a flying leap what the narrow-minded ignorants think?
The question is much more narrow - what role did God play in predestination. Whether Calvinists have been over-excited in the past is irrelevant to that question, but only serves to distract from a close read of the exegesis of the Scriptures.
...that insipid non-word of the Left.
Be ashamed!
Be very ashamed!!!
Let him alone Jude, he's upset because they lost the world franchise. Luther and Calvin opened the market to everyone without their having to pay.
Well, guess what? I don't care if you're kidding or not. Behave yourself and stop trying to show off!
"Well, guess what? I don't care if you're kidding or not. Behave yourself and stop trying to show off!"
Better than taking yourself too seriously!
"Tolerence" doesn't mean I have to think your viewpoint is as good as mine. I can still be tolerent of your viewpoint, and think you're full of it. Tolerance requires, however, that I (accurately) understand why you think what you do and that I not force you to agree with me.
"Being a neener just means I can change my mind and not like it tomorrow..."
That sounds like Alsheimer's to me.
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