The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[the808bass]

It's deep, revelatory

Nevermind the fact that the simple act of God revealing His name set him apart from all the pagan divinities who hid their names from their worshippers, for it was by their name that a relationship was obtained.

[the808bass]

This “free will” morass the church has sunk into is nothing more than the Pelagius heresy the church fought since Augustine-apparently not very successfully. Man is in control-not God. It’s no wonder atheists prefer it over the Reform doctrine.

Thank you for finally (at least tacitly) admitting that 99% of your arguments against Arminianism are really a Pelagian form of Arminianism which is not believed or practiced by the vast majority of Christians who believe in Free Will. I have been waiting ever so patiently for this. Gracias mi amigo.

It’s no wonder atheists prefer it over the Reform doctrine.

I would submit to you that one reason that atheists find it so attractive is that it gives them ample reason for more easily rejecting the idea of a loving, sovereign God. Cuz it's a little difficult to see Him through the fog of Calvin.

[the808bass]

Isa 43:7 "Everyone who is called by My name, And whom I have created for My glory, Whom I have formed, even whom I have made."

This doesn't even come close to saying man is created for God's glory. It says the elect are, right?

[the808bass]

Mack is watching some stupid "Mythbuster" show, something about exploding toilets

Mental image.....

****delete****

[the808bass]

We're good at tauntology too.

I'm currently working on a book entitled "Mock Them Into The Kingdom: The Role of Sarcasm and Insult in the Evangelical Task." I think it's destined for great things.

[AlguyA]

"I'm currently working on a book entitled "Mock Them Into The Kingdom: The Role of Sarcasm and Insult in the Evangelical Task." I think it's destined for great things."

O.K., I think you have a good start here. But might I suggest you use your title as, instead, the subtitle and use as your main title: "The Purpose-Driven Put-Down."

[drstevej]

***I'm currently working on a book entitled "Mock Them Into The Kingdom: The Role of Sarcasm and Insult in the Evangelical Task." ***

Cool. Make sure you include a chapter on Elijah and the Prophets of Baal.

27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” (1 Kings 18)

This one is fun. Jesus speaking ya know...

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. Mt. 23:27

[CARepubGal]

Are you the thread monitor Bass? Lets see: I was ORDERED to leave by you (under penalty of Banning?); Dr E was berated as a "disruptor" by you and now you smack down Mom. What is up with that?

[D-fendr]

Genesis 6:6-7 may spark some thoughts in this context.

KJV

And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

New KJV

And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

RSV
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and it greived him to His heart.
So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

[the808bass]

ORDERED to leave by you (under penalty of Banning?); Dr E was berated as a "disruptor" by you and now you smack down Mom. What is up with that?

Well, one for three's not bad, gal, eh? I disinvited you at your own apparent disaste for us heathen-lovers over here. Hardly an "order" to leave the thread. I don't recall ever using the word "disruptor" for anyone and in fact, I invited our dear Dr. E to stay as she brightens my days and fills my nights with song. And Mom is being smacked down for continuing to ignore the very obvious facts of what happened on this thread in regards to the moderators and continues to insinuate Quester and Mal are at fault when it had nothing to do with them whatsoever.

[CARepubGal]

I addressed F-E-L-L-O-W-S-H-I-P-P-I-N-G as a problem. Fellowshipping is reserved for Brothers and Sisters in Christ. And the line is crossed here. That is a problem. As is the bizarre rage when one of us pokes our happy Reformed heads into the "private" sanctum.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

...losing Iggy - twice -

LOL. I've been working, so I'm way behind on my insults and feigned indignation. But I had to laugh at that one.

Who was it, Bill Cosby maybe, who said, "losing one parent is a tragedy; losing both is just carelessness."

[HarleyD]

HD-Isa 43:7 "Everyone who is called by My name, And whom I have created for My glory, Whom I have formed, even whom I have made."

808-This doesn't even come close to saying man is created for God's glory.

Pardon me but I've never read anything so dumb in my life. And that includes some of the things that I've written.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

FM

I've posted for three years and lurked for two. But I've never seen so many public announcements of "Hey, fella, I want to whisper something in your ear so nobody else can hear it, but I still want them all to know they're not privy to it.

wink wink; nudge nudge; say no more..."

[CindyDawg]

I can't speak for anyone else but I do it to let others know they have mail. Sometimes you don't know if you are on threads. I have known most of these guys going on 2 years and sometimes messages are simply just what it means "private" and not pertinent to the thread. Ex: yesterday I was talking with someone about horse supplements. You interested in that? :')

[ksen]

The point that I was making is that God did not plan this, ... nor were the Israelites doing as He intended when they did this.

If He knew it would happen and created the situation anyway then He did intend for it to happen.

[Revelation 911]

I think youre desire to stay in the book is admirable - but would caution that some really beautiful rumination of them has already been put to pen by folks smarter than you and I (and other posters here).

I'd suggest starting with the concise (brief) commentaries of Matthew Hentry who shares some lovely thoughts

[HarleyD]

I would like to correct post 3890 and 3870. I said that it seems God shows impartially. This is in error. After reviewing this it is VERY clear in the scriptures that God shows NO partiality. Please consider:

Romans 2:11 "For there is no partiality with God."

Can't get much clearer than that. But there are numerous verses both in the Old and New Testament stating the same thing.

In going through our discussions I see no apparent contradictions in either of our perspectives so I tried to understand what the Bible deems God's impartiality and reconciled that to the verse "Jacob I loved but Esau I hated."

In researching this I found that the word “partiality” we use today is far different than used in the Bible. Our definition of partiality from the dictionary is defined as:

1). fondness: a liking for something or 2). biased attitude or behavior: an unfair preference for one person or thing over another.

However, the Greek definition of partiality in Romans 2:11 is

the fault of one who when called on to give judgment has respect of the outward circumstances of man and not to their intrinsic merits, and so prefers, as the more worthy, one who is rich, high born, or powerful, to another who does not have these qualities

God knew both the qualities of Jacob and Esau (not their merits) and loved Jacob’s qualities and hated Esau’s. But God shows NO partiality to our merits.

[HarleyD]

"Thank you for finally (at least tacitly) admitting that 99% of your arguments against Arminianism are really a Pelagian form of Arminianism which is not believed or practiced by the vast majority of Christians who believe in Free Will. I have been waiting ever so patiently for this. Gracias mi amigo."

Why, you're quite welcome. However, if you think that Pelagian is not believed or practiced you should think again. When the Pelagian group found their message to be unpopular with the church they developed the Semi-Pelagian theology which states:

Semi-Pelagianism would influence both Celtic Christianity and later may have contributed to Arminianism which says as follows;

1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. (In other words predestination is said to be conditioned by God's foreknowledge of who would respond to the gospel)

2. Christ died for all men (not just for the elect), but no one except the believer has remission of sin.

3. Man can neither of himself nor of his free will do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Though accused of such, Arminius and his followers claimed they were not Pelagians.)

4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible.

5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it is possible for a believer to fall from grace.

Ref: http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/pelagius_brit.htm

(But you can find this anywhere with a simple google search.)

Sound familiar? It's what is being argued here. And those are the facts.

[HarleyD]

"And I suppose having God all figured out lets you sleep better at night."

Knowing that I don't have to be a Billy Graham to be equally loved by God is reward enough for me.