The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[SoothingDave]

We are to be transformed within the culture in which we are. And we are to subsequently transform that culture by being salt and light.

Yep. Authentic inculturation, as opposed to "diversity for diverstiy's sake" is a keystone of the Church's embrace of a nation. The source is Christ and the Church, which should flow out into the culture, whose unique elements then return and blossom in service of the Church and Christ.

SD

[al_c]

Disclaimer: If you want on or off of this ping list, FReepmail me.

But however strong sin is, Jesus is infinitely stronger. And his mercy is new every morning.

Wednesday, March 31, 2004
Lenten Weekday

First Reading: Psalm: Gospel:

Daniel 3:14-20, 91-92, 95 Daniel 3:52-56 John 8:31-42 What is it that is about to be created, that enjoys such honour? It is man that great and wonderful living creature, more precious in the eyes of God than all other creatures! For him the heavens and the earth, the sea and all the rest of creation exist. God attached so much importance to his salvation that He did not spare His own Son for the sake of man. Nor does He ever cease to work, trying every possible means, until He has raised man up to Himself and made him sit at His right hand.  -- St. John Chrysostom

The following is, as usual, from The Word Among Us:

Jesus' opponents must have thought they had it made. They came from the noble ancestry of Abraham and Moses and David. With such a pedigree, why would they ever think of themselves as slaves in need of liberation--especially by someone as common as Jesus? But the truth is that every one of us--no matter who our ancestors are--experiences bondage to sin or attachments to worldly things.

Jesus plainly told these Jews that sin enslaves (John 8:34). By going our own way and trying to "free" ourselves from God, we actually became bound to sin. And in this bondage, sin will blind us to healthy, life-giving alternatives, stifling our freedom to choose. It's easier than we often think to get caught in a cycle of disobedience by following our selfish inclinations and disregarding the harm we are doing to ourselves and others in the process.

Fortunately for us, the freedom that Jesus won on the cross has restored our ability to love and choose God above all else. It's now up to us to learn how to embrace that freedom and let it transform us. This is why the Sacrament of Reconciliation is such an awesome gift! When we confess our sins, Jesus does much more than just forgive us. At every Confession, he pours out rivers of grace, empowering us to be set free more and more from sin and its effects.

While Jesus' enemies thought they had nothing to worry about, we know better. We all know how strong temptation can be. But however strong sin is, Jesus is infinitely stronger. And his mercy is new every morning. Easter is almost here. Why not unburden yourself in Confession and let his grace flow in your life? Holocaust survivor Corrie ten Boom once told a crowd, "When we confess our sins, God casts them into the deepest ocean, gone forever. And even though I cannot find a scripture for it, I believe God places a sign out there that says, ‘No fishing allowed.'" Although it may take time, let Jesus' forgiveness release you from slavery so you can be free to choose God's will in every situation!

"Jesus, you are the antidote for sin. Free me from slavery to created things so that I may love you above all else and love those around me generously and unselfishly!"

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God bless.

AC

[al_c]

You still in the FW area?

[IMRight]

Today and tomorrow. We're on our way out the door in a minute to go to this wildlife park (fossil rim) an hour or so southwest of here. Supposed to be a big deal.

[IMRight]

Going to "Cousin's" BBQ tonight if you want me to buy you dinner.

[IMRight]

45 huh? I planned to re-tire at 46. Yeah right. lol

Hey, I've got to at least have a plan.

We've actually targeted "55+", with four-year wiggle room for which of us the "55" is for. The "+" is whatever college adds above what we can save between now and then. With four kids that could mean "72" if they turn out NOT to be the geniuses we "know" they are.

[IMRight]

Which church does your family attend, in Ft Worth?

We haven't been in awhile... our last trip here was cut short by a death in the family back in GA (we landed and packed the car up the same night to drive east).

I think it was Travis Road(ave? lane?) Baptist. I've only been twice, but I have a positive memory of the place... the preacher must have been good.

[al_c]

No can do. Been crazy busy at work and home this week.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

In my opinion, Steven attempts this here on this board by advocating a cultural change as the only way to have a relationship with God,

Thank you for your opinion. If Torah Observance & commandment keeping advocate a cultural change, so be it.

[OLD REGGIE]

The question is not meaningless. People attempt this converting to a culture all the time. In my opinion, Steven attempts this here on this board by advocating a cultural change as the only way to have a relationship with God, namely changing to the Judaic culture (Feel free to correct me on your position here, Steven). Pentecostals have done this for years and still do this. In South America, you can tell the Pentecostals often just by the fact that they dress like 1950's style Americans. For they have probably been converted to a 1950's American culture as much as they have been converted to Christ. Does that make more sense?

No, it doesn't make sense to me. In your Pentacostal example for instance I doubt that the "converted" made the trip to the "1950's style America" culture prior to their religious conversion.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that your argument IMO is an example of reverse logic. If I understand you correctly it is your belief the "conversion" to culture precedes the "conversion" to a particular religion. It sounds like a paper straight out of the PSSI. (Pseudo Social Science Institute).

Studies from the ORI (Old Reggie Institute) show a very strong relationship between Religion and Culture. The culture in fact will "flavor" the form and practice of a religion as may be shown for instance in Roman Catholicism as practiced in South America and Boston, Massachusetts.

To answer your question, absolutely yes. We are to be transformed within the culture in which we are. And we are to subsequently transform that culture by being salt and light.

Well, we at least agree on part 2.

It might be interesting to ask a person, who has made a conversion from a "Christian Religion/Culture" to a "Jewish Religion/Culture", the order in which this "conversion" took place.

(I recognize there are varying degrees of immersion involved in the conversion to a "Religion/Culture".)

[malakhi]

It might be interesting to ask a person, who has made a conversion from a "Christian Religion/Culture" to a "Jewish Religion/Culture", the order in which this "conversion" took place.

Religion first, culture second.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Religion first, culture second.

Whiskey first, pass out later.

BigMack

[OLD REGGIE]

Religion first, culture second.

Thank you. (I knew that. ;-)

Now please tell me why my You have mail flag is staying highlighted. It has been that way for days.

[CindyDawg]

That happened to me once. I had an unopened mail that I missed.

Hey guys!

[SoothingDave]

No, it doesn't make sense to me. In your Pentacostal example for instance I doubt that the "converted" made the trip to the "1950's style America" culture prior to their religious conversion.

You seem to have missed bass's point. It is not necessary for contemporary Latin Americans to behave like the Anglos from "Father Knows Best" in order for them to follow Jesus. It is not necessary to lose your own culture in order to find God.

One of the theological points of the Incarnation is that God came to gather all of the nations to Himself. By cooperating with His grace, all cultures, all peoples can be made anew and holy.

As long as any immoral practices are excised from a culture, it is not necessary for it to become somethign else in order to find God's favor. When the person is filled with the Spirit, the person can take that breath of God and, utilizing his own pecular talents, turn it into somethign wonderful. A person from culture A might respond to God in a different way from someone from culture B. Maybe one writes a song, while the other designs a building. One finds God animating his poetry, the other finds God moving behind his prose.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Religion first, culture second.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that it was the other way around. The point is that 1950s American culture is not the only acceptable culture for someone who is brought into the Christian religion. There is not any one culture which must be adopted.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

That happened to me once. I had an unopened mail that I missed.

By golly, you were right.

Hi Cindy.

[OLD REGGIE]

You seem to have missed bass's point. It is not necessary for contemporary Latin Americans to behave like the Anglos from "Father Knows Best" in order for them to follow Jesus. It is not necessary to lose your own culture in order to find God.

I know you are the official spokesman for the RCC but I prefer to let bass speak for himself on this matter thank you.

(the808bass) "... People attempt this converting to a culture all the time. In my opinion, Steven attempts this here on this board by advocating a cultural change as the only way to have a relationship with God, namely changing to the Judaic culture (Feel free to correct me on your position here, Steven). Pentecostals have done this for years and still do this. In South America, you can tell the Pentecostals often just by the fact that they dress like 1950's style Americans. For they have probably been converted to a 1950's American culture as much as they have been converted to Christ. Does that make more sense?"

If bass is not claiming Steven is advocating a cultural "conversion" as a the only way to have a relationship with God I have read him wrong.

If I have read him correctly he is stating that the cultural conversion is a precondition to the religious conversion in the two examples, Steven and the Pentacostals, he has given.

In any event I will wait for the explanation from the808bass.

[SoothingDave]

If I have read him correctly he is stating that the cultural conversion is a precondition to the religious conversion in the two examples, Steven and the Pentacostals, he has given.

You're wrong, but I'll let bass confirm that later.

He is stating that after the initial conversion, to be honest and authentic in that conversion, you must undergo a cultural change. In the examples given.

SD

[JHavard]

Check your mail Nathan