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Battle over evolution heating up
News 8 Austin ^ | 8/20/2003 | Antonio Castelan

Posted on 08/20/2003 6:24:57 PM PDT by new cruelty

The debate continues over what information Texas biology books should present.

The Texas Board of Education is looking to pick the best science book for students.

Members of a campaign called "Stand Up For Science'' said it's meant to protect the accurate teaching of evolution in Texas high school biology textbooks.

The push was unveiled on Wednesday by some religious leaders, scientists and parents. It comes as the state Board of Education prepares to adopt new biology textbooks this fall.

Terry Maxwell, a professor of biology at Angelo State University, doesn't believe creationism should be in biology textbooks.

"Science uses evidentiary reasoning and it uses no other approach," he said.

Creationists generally believe earth was formed supernaturally by God.

Reverend Tom Hegar said while he believes in God's powers, those ideas need to stay at home or in the church.

"Faith and science are complimentary. Don't use faith to build your science. Don't use science to try to destroy or shrink my faith," he said.

Seattle-based Discovery Institute believes the theory of intelligent design should be in Texas biology books. According to the Institute, intelligent design is the hypothesis that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Science backers say that's the same thing as creationism.

"Textbooks should fix embarrassing factual errors and tell students about the scientific weakness of neo-Darwinism as well as its strengths," Discovery Institute officials stated in a faxed memo.

Maxwell said two different ideologies make it harder for students to learn science.

"If you interject ways of knowing other than the way science is practiced by mainstream science you confuse children," he said.

Austin biology teacher Amanda Walker said evolution is the cornerstone for understanding the living world, and influences medicine such as prostate cancer, heart disease and AIDS.

The evolution proponents also criticized what they said are attempts to teach creationist theories.

The Board of Education can reject books because of errors or failure to follow the state curriculum.

The board will make its final decision on the biology textbooks in November.

People have until Thursday, Aug. 21, to sign up to speak at the final public hearing Sept. 10.

In July, the first public hearing brought 42 speakers who offered their opinions at the public hearing on biology, but only half of them were familiar with the particular books.

Board member Gail Lowe said then she was disappointed that many of the people who testified for or against certain textbooks hadn't actually read them.

"They seem to be here to express a viewpoint, but it doesn't seem to relate to the textbooks we're actually considering," she said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: biology; creation; crevolist; evolution; scienceeducation; textbooks
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BTTT

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941

101 posted on 08/21/2003 5:15:29 AM PDT by thackney (Life is Fragile, Handle with Prayer)
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bttt
102 posted on 08/21/2003 5:22:28 AM PDT by new cruelty
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To: general_re
On the other hand, he can quite confidently lecture you about the evils of smoking, so it's pretty clear that they can teach the things that they choose to. Broken by design, the public schools are...

I had to drive my kids to the publc schools of our choice; two kids times twelve years. I don't kow or care whether it was strictly legal, but the schools never complained because they are funded according to enrollment and attendance.

103 posted on 08/21/2003 5:28:07 AM PDT by js1138
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To: TheAngryClam
Next thing you know, we'll be pushing for alchemy to be taught along with real chemistry, because, damn it, that's what the medieval Europeans believed.

At least Alchemy laid the foundations of intellectual inquiry for actual Chemistry. In that respect, it had some worth.

104 posted on 08/21/2003 5:36:49 AM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: SedVictaCatoni
Is it so absurd to think that evolution is God's mechanism for creating living creatures? We've discovered God's mechanism for creating stars, God's mechanism for creating crystals, God's mechanism for turning the oceans into rain, and God's mechanism for creating sunlight. All of these things have brought us wonder, and have brought us very little closer to understanding any of the important things which the Truth is about. What is so strange or hostile about yet another discovery?

Precisely.

The biggest conflict between the creationists and the evolutionists seems (to me) to come from whether you believe that God has to micromanage the universe, or was simply infinite in His wisdom to just "let it run on its own" so to speak.

I was taught biology by a nun (St. Joseph brand) that taught the latter explanation. She realized that the Bible was written more than a thousand years ago using the beliefs and understandings of the people at the time. The wonder and understanding of the people at the time of the writing of the Bible produced text that was as accurate as they could make it. How literally one takes these writings should surely be put into the context of the time in which it was written. Surely, the same revelations and miracles, if done today, would produce a distinctly different Bible (also if written today). And it would probably be considered as archaic or metaphorical, if you will, a thousand years from today.

Therefore, I say there is no real conflict between the two conceptualizations, merely differences in timeframe. The real lessons of the Bible are morality and decency, not whether the Earth was created in 6 days or 6 billion years. They both describe the same event in different ways seen through different eyes. Someday, maybe soon, maybe never, we will have the true and most accurate story, but I, for one, am not going to waste my time worrying about it. The Earth is here, the dinosaurs aren't, and nothing we argue about here will change that.

There are bigger dragons to slay, and they be called Clintons and the Democrats. These are evils that can be dealt with in real time. Let's devote our energies to keeping that scourge out of power.

105 posted on 08/21/2003 6:56:40 AM PDT by SpinyNorman
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To: hoosierskypilot
The fundamental law of biology is that life cannot emanate from non-life.

It is?! Please cite your source for this "fundamental law." Also, please define "life." I believe it is integral to the discussion.

Yet evolutionary hypothesis says that's exactly what happened.

It does?! Please cite your source for this statement. (although I could save you some time: You are wrong.) Evolutionary THEORY says nothing of the origin of life. Please focus on what evolution actually is, not what you wrongly think it is.

Why the hangup with calling evolution a theory? It moved far beyond "hypothesis" about 150 years ago. You need to update your library, in my opinion.

The fact is, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in God.

So you are an adherent to that religion who eschews all doctors in favor of prayer?
106 posted on 08/21/2003 7:12:06 AM PDT by whattajoke
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To: hoosierskypilot
Ain't it the truth. The fundamental law of biology is that life cannot emanate from non-life. Yet evolutionary hypothesis says that's exactly what happened.

Evolutionary hypothesis says life began under conditions that cannot be reproduced. If it cannot be reproduced, then it cannot be demonstrated. That means it (evolutionary hypothesis) is unscientific.

The fact is, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in God.

You may want to look at the work of Urey and Miller in 1953 for starters, and do some Google searches for more recent works, such as http://www.origins.rpi.edu/chem.html. That will be a good starting place for you. Your first sentence and following statements would have been accurate in the mid to late 1800s versus.

107 posted on 08/21/2003 7:12:48 AM PDT by SpinyNorman
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To: SpinyNorman
Ooops! Drop that last "versus!" Need more coffee!
108 posted on 08/21/2003 7:15:24 AM PDT by SpinyNorman
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To: TheAngryClam
Intelligent Design questions the scientific basis for evolution, challenging its' wishful thinking. Don't lump it with the meaningless label "creationism".
109 posted on 08/21/2003 7:30:46 AM PDT by metacognative
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To: metacognative
Intelligent Design questions the scientific basis for evolution

But does a very poor job. We've been through eyes, puffer fish, sex, platypus, echo-location, flagella... what's funny is the ID crowd will pore over nature magazine and find something they don't understand. Then scientists put more study into it, publish papers on it, and sew up any holes that may exist. In an ironic way, science can thank ID'ers for pointing out things that can be studied more closely.

And btw, scientific hypotheses need to propose something. ID is simply literary criticism and creationism dressed up all pretty with a little lipstick on.
110 posted on 08/21/2003 7:40:57 AM PDT by whattajoke
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To: hoosierskypilot
The fact is, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in God.

In discussions like this, we should be careful about our terminology, so that we're all using words in the same way. I've posted this before, but not for at least 6 months, and I think it's useful:

One can "believe" in the existence of the tooth fairy, but one does not -- in the same sense of the word -- "believe" in the existence of his own mother. Belief in the first proposition (tooth fairy) requires faith, which is the belief in something for which there is no evidence or logical proof. The second proposition (mother) is the kind of knowledge which follows from sensory evidence. There is also that kind of knowledge (like the Pythagorean theorem) which follows from logical proof. In either case, that is, belief in things evidenced by sensory evidence or demonstrated by logical proof, there is no need for faith.

In between mother and the Pythagorean theorem are those propositions we provisionally accept (or in common usage "believe"), like relativity and evolution, because they are scientific theories -- logical and falsifiable explanations of the available data (which data is knowledge obtained via sensory evidence).

Useful website in this context: Do You Believe in Evolution?.

111 posted on 08/21/2003 8:03:55 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Tooth fairy placemarker.
112 posted on 08/21/2003 8:07:30 AM PDT by balrog666 (Ignorance never settles a question. -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: PatrickHenry; hoosierskypilot
Also, I've previously posted this over 6 months ago:

I shall remind you that the scientific enterprise is not in the ‘belief’ business. Science’s primary mission is to understand the reality of how things work in nature. This is purely an intellectual activity and does not require the operation of any faith or belief system. I use a broom to sweep out my garage because it’s the best tool for dealing with the reality of grunge on my garage floor. But I don’t ‘believe’ in brooms. I consider the reality of the broom in terms of my dirty garage floor.

Scientists seek the best tools to help them comprehend the reality of the natural world in which they live. To the extent that a theory is useful, it will be used. To the extent that a theory is not useful it won’t be used. Scientific theories are the tools for scientists like wrenches are the tools of mechanics. We use tools in our lives where they are most appropriate but we are not required to ‘believe’ in them.

113 posted on 08/21/2003 8:10:12 AM PDT by whattajoke
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To: WOSG
So yes, teach Genesis and the other 'creation' stories as a part of attempts to deal with and understand the created universe

The Nation of Islam believes that the white race is the result of an alien scientist's experiment gone awry. Shall we include that one?

114 posted on 08/21/2003 8:36:40 AM PDT by gdani
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To: SedVictaCatoni
unuseful as a practical attempt to explain the origin of the various creatures?

It doesn't have much value. We need to harden up our managerial attitudes like Ahnold in California. This is the situation; where do we go from here.

115 posted on 08/21/2003 8:57:37 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: PatrickHenry
"vastly improving signal-to-noise ratio" placemarker

116 posted on 08/21/2003 9:36:50 AM PDT by longshadow
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To: SpinyNorman; whattajoke; PatrickHenry
I stand by what I said, viz., it takes more faith to believe man evolved from apes than to simply believe Genesis 1.

And, evolution is still nothing more than an hypothesis, i.e., a guess.

In The Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation, (1960, pp.6,7) W.R. Thompson points out that "Modern Darwinism palaeontologists are obliged, just like their predecessors and like Darwin, to water down the facts with subsidiary hypothesis, which, however plausible, are in the nature of things, unverifiable.....This situation, where scientific men rally to the defence of a doctrine they are unable to define scientifically, much less demonstrate with scientific rigour, attempting to maintain its credit with the public by the suppression of criticism and the elimination of difficulties, is abnormal and undesirable in science."

I repeat, I stand by what I said.

117 posted on 08/21/2003 9:50:54 AM PDT by hoosierskypilot
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To: Stultis
" It does not represent "fairness" or "balance" to teach a doctrine which has failed to earn standing in professional scholarship as on a par with one that has. "

When you run the educational establishments, your will is law. How favorable do you suppose die-hard leftists that inhabit the NEA, and virtually all organs of the state-educational apparatus are, towards anything remotely resembling intelligent design? They are victims of their prejudices, and they are blinded by the zeitgeist of dialectical materialism. Of course they wouldn't permit anything to be published that counteracts their views! And if you really, honestly, believe that science journal editors pursue truth disinterestedly, then I have oceanfront property for you...
118 posted on 08/21/2003 9:59:58 AM PDT by =Intervention= (Moderatism is the most lackluster battle-cry.)
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To: Rudder
The only proponents of Creationism are the boogeymen who live inside of evolutionist's minds. Why is that? Because, as I've stated endlessly, Creationism is a pejorative term invented by evolutionists...
119 posted on 08/21/2003 10:01:31 AM PDT by =Intervention= (Moderatism is the most lackluster battle-cry.)
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To: whattajoke
"Scientists seek the best tools to help them comprehend the reality of the natural world in which they live. To the extent that a theory is useful, it will be used. To the extent that a theory is not useful it won’t be used."

You haven't been inside a science department lately, have you? You haven't been inside a science classroom lately, have you? I'm sorry...I'm just laughing my eyes out at your post. Science teachers (and academics in general) lord "theories" over students as if they were cast-in-stone facts. There is no discource. There is no humility.

Inside the academic halls, it's a struggle for money, power, and prestiege. If you've spent 23 years building your theory, you don't abandon it easily. You're aware of the whole social contruction of truth theories from sociology, I trust? Intelligent people tend to hyperconform to one another and staunchly defend their pet theories -- especially where rewards are in place (money, prizes, government posts). You say that scientists are immune to all of these things. I'd like to say "don't make me laugh" but you already have...

The concept of scientist as the thoroughly dispassionate disinterested observer and recorder does not fit any university within the known universe...
120 posted on 08/21/2003 10:07:39 AM PDT by =Intervention= (Moderatism is the most lackluster battle-cry.)
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