Vote On Gay Bishop Delayed; Allegations Surface

nbc4.com, Minneapolis ^ | August 4, 2003

[Pan_Yans Wife]

The vote on confirming a gay Episcopal bishop was postponed Monday in light of allegations of pornography and inappropriate conduct, a church spokesman said.

A vote was expected Monday in Minneapolis that could make a New Hampshire clergyman, the Rev. Gene Robinson, the church's first openly gay elected bishop.

The spokesman said the postponement came after allegations emerged involving "touching" and "pornography." He declined to elaborate.

The church's House of Deputies has voted overwhelmingly to approve Robinson, who faces a final vote in the House of Bishops.

Robinson says Sunday's results make him feel "very peaceful on the inside" and "very humbled."

But the American Anglican Council, which represents conservative bishops and parishes, said it is "deeply grieved" by the results.

Robinson, a 56-year-old divorced father of two, has lived with his partner, Mark Andrew, for 13 years.

Bishops who believe gay sex is a sin say the approval of Robinson will weaken and divide the denomination and spark a bitter fight over parish property and funds.

But liberals say the threat has been exaggerated and note that many conservatives had pledged to break ties before over issues such as ordaining women but did not follow through.

[syriacus]

And the allegations include:
http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3216717

Episcopalian Vote on Gay Bishop Postponed
Mon August 4, 2003 03:50 PM ET
By Sarah Tippit

MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. (Reuters) - Episcopalian bishops suddenly put off a planned vote on Monday on the church's first openly gay bishop, and one of his supporters said it was because of an accusation of sexual misconduct.

A copy of an e-mail obtained by Reuters that was sent to Vermont Bishop Thomas Ely from a man identified as David Lewis accused New Hampshire bishop-elect Gene Robinson of being a "skirt-chaser" who fondled him two years ago.

"My personal experience with him is he does not maintain appropriate boundaries with men. I believe this is an alarming weakness of character that alone makes Gene unsuitable for the office of bishop," the note, dated Sunday, said.
[snip]

[utahagen]

I think the votes ARE there for Robinson, and that the people nervous about that are the liberals. Courageous Episcopalians like Daniel Herzog, the Episcopal Bishop of Albany, New York, will not roll over this time. Meaning, there will be an actual schism if Robinson is approved. Up until a few weeks ago, liberals in the ECUSA were betting that orthodox Episcopalians would suck up this latest affront. However, the writing is on the wall that Robinson was headed for approval and that orthodox Episcopalians would then be headed for the door.

Personally, I hope these allegations blow over and that Robinson is approved. Since the ECUSA supports abortion on demand, orthodox Christians in the Episcopal Church should have left years ago. It's time they did so, and joined the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, the Presbyterian Church in America, the Orthodox Church, or the Catholic Church.

[Wolfstar]

Robinson, a 56-year-old divorced father of two, has lived with his partner, Mark Andrew, for 13 years.

So at the age of 43, this guy up and decides he wants to f#@k men. He divorces his wife and two children, and takes up with a male "partner." And THIS is the type of individual the Episcopal Church wants to represent it as a bishop? Chilling.

[journey7873]

What, do you believe, happens to you when you die?

[Pan_Yans Wife]

If Robinson had been chasing women, would anyone have batted an eye? Would the liberals in the church have wanted to support him?

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Homosexuals cannot reproduce, they must recruit.

Why did the links get pulled today? I would think they need the publicity!

[Zack Nguyen]

Were I a member of a Church I would expect the Church to live by it's own rules -- and from what I have read, the Bible is perfectly clear when it comes to homosexual conduct.

It is indeed. Homosexuals, like you and I, need the grace of Jesus Christ. They most certainly don't need to be coddled and told that everything is okay with their behavior when it isn't.

[MineralMan]

"My goodness! You even trash the religion of our very own Apu Nahasapeemapetilon!

Do you not believe in the "squishee" either?"

My only god is Nogod.

Nogod will save you.
Nogod will answer your prayers.
Nogod is omnipotent.
Believe in Nogod or Nogod will kill you.

[MineralMan]

"What, do you believe, happens to you when you die?"

Me, personally? I will cease to be. My body will be cremated, according to my wishes. Such is life and death. I exist today. When I die, there will be no more I. My existence will end.

Life's for living.

[cherry]

"Youd think the separation of church and state, the holy law per libs, would prevent the govt meddling. I believe it is headed that way though, through coercion like used on the Boy Scouts.:

of course it will....do you realize how much money is given to church-sponsored charity groups like Lutheran Services and Catholic Charities...

I know that there are many Catholic adult homes, senior housing units, homes for unwed mothers, half-way houses etc that depend on federal handouts to keep going...

what if lawsuits demanded that the fed. government stop supporting churches that discriminate?...and thereby pull back all monies that support anything associated with those churches...

I think my church would surely buckle ..(Catholic)...I've noticed that my church organization is all in favor of heavy taxes to support government social spending...they wouldn't dare speak against any social program because they are on the hook for millions in federal/state dollars....

if it meant changing policy to keep the money coming, I am sorry to say that is what they will probably do, especially after this current Pope is gone....

that is what is happening to the boy scouts...

[utahagen]

I agree 100%. Griswold would have loved a gay bishop, but he has realized at the eleventh hour that orthodox Episcopalians aren't going to take this latest hit lying down. The New York Times et al will blame "conservatives" for these allegations, but I'd bet a million bucks they came (originally) from ECUSA liberals who've lost their nerve. Robinson keeps crowing about all the new members the ECUSA will get once he's approved. Oh, sure, as if non-Episcopalian Christian gays have had nowhere else to go until now. The United Church of Christ (Congregationalists) embraced active gays years ago, not to mention the Unitarians. No, the real movement if Robinson is approved would be by life-long Episcopalians... marching out the door. Robinson may be in denial about this, but I'll bet Griswold realized within the last week that this is true and he doesn't want to be at the helm when the ECUSA cracks up, as it eventually will.

[Cookie123]

The Church frowns upon their clergy committing heterosexual adultery. Several yrs ago a Bishop was booted b/c an affair surfaced he had had 20 yrs earlier. He was repenetant for that affair, and remained in his marriage, but was shown the door anyway.

[Zack Nguyen]

What follows is an excerpt from a book by a conservative Presbyterian named Gary North. The book, named "Crossed Fingers", charts in great detail the fall of the Northern Presbyterian Church into liberalism.

I think given our present subject, it is very worthwhile to read. I'd highly recommend the book, which is free over the internet.

I don't necessarily agree with all of Mr. North's theology, but this book, as far as I know, is the only one of it's kind that actually charts the liberal takeover of a denomination. It is superbly researched. It is available for free (!) on his website. See the link below.

HERE BEGINS THE EXCERPT, TAKEN FROM THE "FORWARD"...

This book is about a conflict between two mighty religions, Christianity and humanism. It is also about a third religious tradition that was caught in the middle, whose adherents were forced by circumstances to decide which side to support: experientialism-pietism. Some of them were Christians; others were humanists. This book is about a number of confusions, both theological and institutional, and their subsequent clarification. It discusses heroes and villains, and it acknowledges that the vast majority of the participants were somewhere in between. This is true of every turning point in history except the rebellion of Adam and Eve, in which there were no innocent bystanders. It is the story of a turning point in the history of the United States.

This is a history of the liberals' strategy of infiltration and conquest of the Northern Presbyterian Church. A similar strategy was carried out in the public schools, the judiciary, the colleges, and the media, but this ecclesiastical battle was the most important battle of the war. It had to be won. Why? Because the fundamental covenantal issues of life are always at bottom theological, not political, educational, or economic. The public testimony of the Presbyterian Church was by far the most theologically rigorous testimony in the country--indeed, in the world. Humanists had to silence this denomination, for it was too influential. The capture of the most theologically articulate large conservative Protestant denomination in the United States was modernism's best-publicized success story of the era. The strategy the modernists used to take over the Presbyterians was used, with modifications, to capture the other large denominations.

This book is more than a history; it is a study in sociological patterns: how institutions and groups adjust in order to survive through history. This is why I focus on a few representative figures. I agree with C. Wright Mills: "No social study that does not come back to the problems of biography, of history and their intersections within a society has completed its intellectual journey." [Emphasis mine.]

http://www.freebooks.com/sidefrm2.htm

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Isn't this Reverend guilty of homosexual adultery?

When an Episcopalian divorces, is re-marriage condoned?

Is homosexuality permissible in the Episcopalian church? Meaning has the church ever said, we support homosexuality, and do not see it as being un-Biblical. Because if that is the debate, shouldn't they go back to square one and vote on that, first?

[cubreporter]

If none are left standing you could still have your faith without the church.

[francisr]

they were links to porn sites - nothing "spiritual" or "exploring" about them - and it made them look like they were all about sex and converting teens instead of a place of "safety and freedom"
don't forget - the guy who would be bishop and the founder of this group had a "reverse ring ceremony" (which he made up) so that he could un-marry his wife and get with his new partner...buried in all this is that he was with his homosexual partner quite awhile before he dumped the wife - he needs the world to be nonjudgemental because he can't stand what a POS he is....IMHO

[Blessed]

My point is that Baptists, Catholics, Protestants, Jews, everyone, including atheists will be forced to accept this lifestyle or else face more intolerant "tolerance" laws and lawsuits.

Southern Baptist may be forced to stand against society but for the time being these issues are settled in the convention. 25 years ago we were headed down this road but a group of Christians stood against the liberals and reclaimed the institutions of the church(seminaries,newspapers and mission boards)To date the SBC is the only denomination to reclaim its organization from the liberals.

[BlessedByLiberty]

Thank you very much. I had not heard of this book but I shall go to the link you provided. It is hard to argue with facts presented to us on a daily basis that we have hit the cultural cross roads and the recent Supreme Court decision may yet be the catalyst that puts the brakes on this massive cultural power grab.

There are many liberals in our family - horrors! - and they are more frequently shocked by their fellow travlers. For instance in the arena of abortion, they accepted it as a "privacy rights issue" until the libs pushed it to partial birth abortion. Now we hear, "well it wasn't supposed to include that."

I believe more of these personal responsibility issues are roosting on some liberal heads and there is no way they can shake them off. It is time for some old hippies to grow up !

[GOPgirl_VA]

MineralMan,
I am Catholic and disagree with your point of view on God, Jesus and other religious issues, but I want to compliment you on the way you present your side. Your responses to questions and critisisms have been well thought out and you seem to hold no hostility towards those who are questioning you. Thank you, most of your athiest commrads are not as articulate.

[Bluntpoint]

Will Nogod greet me into his kingdom at my passing even if I proclaimed in life that Nogod was a figment of some other guy's imagination?

Or will I be bannished to the pit of NoNogod?