Egypt demands return of Rosetta Stone!

The Sunday Telegraph - UK ^ | July 20, 2003 | Charlotte Edwardes and Catherine Milner

[UnklGene]

Egypt demands return of the Rosetta Stone By Charlotte Edwardes and Catherine Milner (Filed: 20/07/2003)

Egypt is demanding that the Rosetta Stone, a 2,000-year-old relic and one of the British Museum's most important exhibits, should be returned to Cairo.

The stone, which became the key to deciphering ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics, was found by Napoleon's army in 1799 in the Nile delta, but has been in Britain for the past 200 years. It forms the centrepiece of the British Museum's Egyptology collection and is seen by millions of visitors each year.

Now, in an echo of the campaign by Athens for the return of the Elgin Marbles, the Egyptian government is calling for the stone to be returned and threatening to pursue its claim "aggressively" if the British Museum does not agree to give it back voluntarily.

Zahi Hawass, the director of the Supreme Council of Antiquities in Cairo, confirmed to The Telegraph that he had begun negotiations with academics and curators at the museum. He said he hoped that they would agree to "voluntarily return the stone", but gave a warning that, if the request was rejected, he would intensify his campaign to bring it back to Egypt.

"If the British want to be remembered, if they want to restore their reputation, they should volunteer to return the Rosetta Stone because it is the icon of our Egyptian identity," said Dr Hawass.

"Otherwise I will have to approach them using a different strategy. There are various stages to our negotiations. I don't want to fight anyone now, but if the British Museum doesn't act, we will have to employ a more aggressive approach with the Government. I don't care if people know my strategy, the artefacts stolen from Egypt must come back."

Dr Hawass said that he had been discussing a possible three-month loan of the stone with the museum. "More immediately, we are prepared to accept it peacefully on a temporary loan and we are in discussions about that right now. That is a short-term solution, however. Ideally, we would like the stone to come back for good."

Dr Hawass said that the Cairo Museum, where the Rosetta Stone would be kept, had a replica of the relic which it would be willing to give to the British Museum in return for the original.

The Rosetta Stone, which dates from 196 BC, was discovered by French troops in 1799 in the village of Rosette (Raschid) in the western delta of the Nile. The stone's importance was that it provided a key to understanding hieroglyphic text because it was accompanied by a Greek translation.

Although the stone was Napoleon's most coveted war acquisition, the French ceded it to Britain under the Treaty of Alexandria in 1801 and it has been exhibited in the British Museum since 1802.

Vivian Davies, the keeper of the Department of Ancient Egypt and Sudan at the museum, expressed sympathy with Dr Hawass's claim, but suggested that legislation on the repatriation of artefacts would prevent the relic's permanent return.

"Will the Rosetta Stone be returned? I would say that our priorities are elsewhere at the moment. We are working with our Egyptian colleagues to preserve the heritage of today rather than concentrate on problems - or issues, perhaps I should say - that are very old," he said.

"We would like to co-operate with the Egyptians insofar as we can under the law. It is the same law that guides us on the issue of the Elgin Marbles - the British Museum Act of 1963." This rules that no artefact can be repatriated without the permission of the museum's trustees.

Mr Davies added: "Perhaps, if I were in Dr Hawass's position, I would feel the same way. We are having constructive negotiations over the loan for three months. It's a new idea he has produced and we appreciate very much that Dr Hawass is being constructive on these matters. We enjoy working with him and his staff."

Dr Hawass, one of the world's leading Egyptologists, has pioneered a major new museum development programme and encouraged the Egyptian government to pour considerable funds into archaeological research.

The Egyptian government has asked for the stone as part of a wide-reaching programme to return "stolen" antiquities from all over the world. Among the items it wants to retrieve are the bust of Queen Nefertiti from the Berlin Museum, the statues of Hatshepsut in the Metropolitan Museum of New York and, perhaps most controversially, the obelisk in the Place de la Concorde, one of the most famous landmarks in Paris.

Dr Hawass added: "The obelisk in France is needed because the Luxor temple from which it came is left with only one. The second one should be there with it."

Last night Neil MacGregor, the director of the British Museum, was unavailable for comment, but in the past he has described the personal significance of the stone. "I remember the first visit I made to the museum was with my father at the age of eight," he said. "I was fascinated by the Rosetta Stone. I was thrilled to be able to touch it - it was uncovered at the time - and physically connect with history."

If the stone were to be moved, it would be seen by far fewer people than is the case today: the Cairo Museum has about 2.5 million visitors a year, compared to the 5.5 million who visit the British Museum annually.

[RightWhale]

That's more than long enough to give them title.

There is a statue of limitations of 100 years in archaeology, but I'm not sure how it would apply in these cases.

[RightWhale]

statue, sheesh. Thinking antiquities too much today.

[Willie Green]

So you're saying if I have an Etruscan vase in my study, bought and paid for legally, it can be repossessed by the Italian government 200 years after the fact, if they claim it's 'cultural heritage'.

No. Are you trying to imply that the Rosetta Stone was legally purchased from Egypt by the British museum?

[Right Wing Professor]

Well, the trouble is the Brits have bought into socialism for so long, it hasn't occurred to them to say 'It's ours. We own it. Bugger off!'.

However, it mystifies me they haven't tried the counter-argument; that the British museum is a vital part of Britain's cultural heritage, and they can't let foreign governments loot and despoil it of its most cherished treasures.

[Billthedrill]

That they did - I've long been of the opinion that the Emperor had it coming. You won't hear much of that from the anti-colonial crowd, though.

Yes - the replica I saw at the Rosicrucian museum was black as well. I haven't verified the story, but according to the staff there it has just been written up in the trade mags. The curator was grousing about how they were going to have to paint theirs or something - they haven't decided. He was leaning toward leaving it black.

Even better story - they've had a mummified baboon that is one of their prize exhibits for some years - they X-rayed it, and it's actually a vase with a carved wooden head. Fooled the experts. I saw it, and it sure fooled me. It's still on display there.

[Aquinasfan]

I think it should be returned by airplane from a high altitude.

[aBootes]

I guess I find it extremely amusing that the British can claim some kind of cultural superiority on possessing the Rosetta Stone or the Elgin marbles, when neither the British civilzation nor English language had existed when these artifacts were created.

Why do I think that you might be of Irish descent, Mrs. Peel?

[Right Wing Professor]

Are you trying to imply that the Rosetta Stone was legally purchased from Egypt by the British museum?

No, it was obtained from the French by treaty, over 200 years ago, after the Brits whupped their asses in Egypt. Spoils of war.

But in any case, property, if held long enough, is owned by its possessor.

[Aquinasfan]

anyone can go to see both and tons of other loot, free, without danger of being attacked by a religious fanatic.

LOL! Good point.

[Cronos]

I disagree with your point that the modern states have NO connection with their past counterparts. That is erroneous to say the least. These artifacts are considered by the nations they were taken from to be part of their heritage, part of their very core of being.

Why, if the original constitution document was taken by the Brits and displayed in a museum there, we would want it back as it's part of us.

[Cronos]

I think it belongs to England, and should remain in their until they decide otherwise.

I don't think even the Brits would agree with you on that. The point they make is that they woul dbe the best to keep these artifacts safe -- a valid and very credible point.

However, the other point that these are parts of someone elses heritage is also true. When the Taliban brought down the Bamiyan buddhas, they were destroying their own sense of self, destroying their own culture, in the same fashion that the British under Cromwell destroyed the original Crown jewels that were centuries old.

imaginary tie to history??

The Egyptians and Greeks certainly don't have an imaginary tie to their own histories.

The gold, that's not a good argument to bring up -- the gold was part of Mexico's "heritage" when it was in the form of statues , jewellery etc. When it was melted down and made into coinage, it became part of the wealth which was taken from Mexico, which is another debate.

This is a separate issue from the point of repatriations, this is heritage. As I said before, we would be equally distraught, to say the least, if the declaration of independence was taken by some other nation and displayed elsewhere.

[Right Wing Professor]

However, the other point that these are parts of someone elses heritage is also true. When the Taliban brought down the Bamiyan buddhas, they were destroying their own sense of self, destroying their own culture, in the same fashion that the British under Cromwell destroyed the original Crown jewels that were centuries old.

Why? Because they happened to inhabit the same geographic location, two millenia apart? There is no ethnic or cultural connection between the mish-mash of Persian, Turkish and Arab tribes of modern Afghanistan, and the mixed Hellenic/Indian Gandharan culture that made the Buddhas. Why does geography trump everything?

[Cronos]

That's not true. Ancient Sogdiana (which consisted of a large part of present day Afghanistan and whose princess married Alexander) was converted into a satrapy by the Persians. The Greeks never stayed there long enough to start a Hellenistic society there. The society was influenced by Hellenistic thought but the people were Sogidans, Persians, Pusthuns, Baluchis, etc. The Tajiks are an Irani people, while the Pashtuns were there earlier, being a more indic race. The Hazaras are remnants of Genghis Khans army and the Uzbeks are Turkic tribes. They ARE the descendants of those who built the Bamiyan buddhas, with other bloodlines coming in. By the same token, the Italians have no claim over the treasures of Rome, the British over Stonehenge or any other Britonnic artifact.

It's not just geography, it's the country's history, it's past.

[Right Wing Professor]

Gandharan culture is considered to be a fusion of Hellenism and Indian Buddhism. See, for example, http://www.caroun.com/Art/Pakistan/BuddhistArtofNorth-WestPakistan.html. Invasion of Turkic and Persian tribes came later. No one knows who descended from the inhabitants at that time, but culturally, there's no link.

[Cronos]

Culturally there's no link. Correct.

The present day inhabitants would have descended from them, only culturally adopted the invaders culture (as happened in Celtic France, Spain etc.)

You could say the same thing about Stonehenge

[Cronos]

Stonehenge...

And before you say that the Brits didn't try to destroy Stonehenge, do recall that they destroyed the original crown jewels during the English civil war and countless abbeys were looted and destroyed under Henry the 8th, with a lot of the cultural heritage lost.

[Diplomat]

Can the Egyptians prove that an Egyptian created the Rosseta stone? What is the orginator's history? Do we know who created it? If not, how can they claim to own an artifact that they themselves may have stolen from the original creator and then used it as building material in some fort?

[brownie]

To the victors go the spoils. There is no guaruntee that had not a french soldier found the stone, it would ever have been found. Moreover, there is no telling whether, if an egyptian had discovered the stone, its importance would have been recognized.

Moreover, someone could call just about anything his "heritage" or claim some historical "right" to something, see for instance the palestinians many "Historical" arguments for their right to Jeruselum. The American Indians heritage was certainly taken away by europeans/americans taking their land, should we return all of that land? Should every museum in the world search its collections and send each item back to its country of origin?

Frankly, I wonder whether there is any actual connection between most, if not all, of today's Egyptians and the people who inhabited the region when the pyramids were built and the Egyptian empire flourished. don't forget, those areas were conquered by Islam, who made it a practice to get rid of most locals once they counquered, thus my skepticism.

[Little Ray]

The current Egyptians have no more in common with the scribers of the Rosetta Stone than do the Brits, and their title to it is no better.
Same is true of the Elgin Marbles, if you ask me.

Worse, if you send 'em back then every pissant country the Brits have ever looted will demand their stuff back. The Brits response should be "You can have it when you the means and the guts to come an take it!"

[shhrubbery!]

we have a beautiful, newly renovated gallery that contains nothing but modern trash paintings; we could throw out the Pollacks to make room!

Heh. Would that be the Sheldon Art Gallery? Haven't been there for many years, but I do remember it seemed filled with Pollacks or Pollacks-lite. Or was there a Hopper or two? (Now Hopper I like.) Am a little familiar with the UNL campus.