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Where have all the Americans gone? (Greece) (Victor Davis Hanson alert)
Townhall ^ | 7/13/03 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 07/13/2003 5:07:05 AM PDT by Elkiejg

Driving across the central Peloponnese recently I was struck how vastly different Greece has become since my first visit exactly thirty years ago. If in the early 1970s paved roads, phone cables, and power wires were just reaching these most remote villages, today even kids in the most isolated hamlets on Mt. Taigetos or along the Alpheios Gorge log-on to the Internet and imitate James Dean on motorcycles. Globalization and subsidies from the EU-and the free embrace of almost every American pop idol-for all the ensuing social and cultural resentment, have transformed Greece into a modern-looking European nation.

But if American popular culture has overwhelmed the country's masses, its professionals-particularly those in the ruling socialist PASOK party-have for years promulgated a particularly virulent form of anti-Americanism. It is a creed nursed on Byzantine theories surrounding the 1967 coup and the aftershocks of the 1974 Cyprus disaster, coupled with past Cold War triangulation with the Soviet Union and Euro-style resentment of the global American presence.

After hearing too many conspiracy theories from wild intellectuals or long diatribes about America's unfair treatment of Milosevic, I think the country's establishment needs to get a life and move on from old hurts, real and imagined, since it is all beginning to sound so tired and shrill. Recent shake-ups in PASOK's leadership suggest that the old anti-Americanism is wearing thin even among that party's elite. But is that realization too little and too late?

Indeed, this summer I suddenly sensed something I had not noticed in my prior annual visits: There seems to be few Americans anywhere. Germans? French? Dutch? They are ubiquitous. But there is hardly an American to be seen. America-Stop signs, reruns of "Married with Children," and MTV schlock-is everywhere; but Americans themselves are almost nowhere.

Maybe we are staying home because of the general fear of terrorism in the post 9-11 climate. Maybe it is our recession-or the steep price hikes brought on by the strong Euro. Yet I think there is also something else special to Greece going on that might explain why Americans would forgo such a safe and beautiful country, replete with a history unrivaled elsewhere. My gut feeling is that after years of splashy anti-Americanism, most Americans-quite wrongly I think-finally concluded it was a hostile place better left alone.

During the latest Iraqi war, tens of thousands of demonstrators poured into Syntagma Square to damn the United States. It is a national secret that soccer fans in the Athens stadium booed when asked for a moment of silence to honor the September 11 American dead shortly after their murder. Our relationship with Israel is openly mocked-sometimes embarrassingly so given the history of the Hellenic Jewish community during World War II. What all this reflects, I think, is that a long hallowed association-based on Cold War pragmatics, Marshall Plan money, thousands of expatriate Greeks in the United States, millions of affluent American tourists who used to flock to the islands, and singular scholarly ties and affinities-is slowly ending as we once knew it.

The American bases are all gone, except for one left on Crete-itself rumored to be reduced or even eliminated. I tried to tell some exasperated Greeks, who depend on the tourist industry and love popular American culture, that their decades of anti-American rhetoric have finally sunk in, and most folks in the heartland of the United States, to the extent they ponder Greece, think it somewhere far to the left of France.

Americans, I added, are funny folk. They don't go in much for heated conversations, fist shaking, and political graffiti sprayed on freeway overpasses. Instead, they just shrug and stay home, and ever so slowly make it known that they'd prefer their troops do the same.

What all this means I don't quite know. The Eastern Mediterranean can still be a very touchy place, the old front line of NATO's southeastern flank. Terrorists seek to use Greek waters to ship their arsenals. Turkey habitually allows its jets to fly provocatively over Greek airspace and could do far more to help resolve the Cyprus dispute. Greece is not a bellicose or aggressive nation, but it is the first real European country at the edge of a volatile Middle East-and its history with the Islamic world, whether in 1460 or 1922, is not encouraging. Its Orthodoxy also makes it a strange bedfellow with like-minded Christians in Serbia, Russia, and Armenia-not exactly stable, reliable, or popular places these days. Germans are here everywhere now and often permanently, and I wonder to what extent anyone remembers their similar intrusive presence in 1941-44-and whether an increasingly undemocratic EU controlled from Berlin is really going to continue to be so avuncular after all.

In short, if I were a Greek, remembering World War II, billions of dollars in past American aid, salvation from the Warsaw Pact, and relative peace with Turkey, I wouldn't have so easily abandoned the old special American friendship.

So as I flew out this beloved country last month, I feared that this noble people with its tragic history at last may have achieved what its elites so often and so vocally wanted for the last thirty years-a country empty of Americans.

Always beware of what you wish for.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antiamericanism; balkans; greece; hanson; vdh; victordavishanson
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To: jpsb
Careful, or there are those on here that will accuse you of anti-Americanism and of blaming America first. But you said, much more tactfully than I, what I was trying to say.
41 posted on 07/13/2003 6:25:32 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: Elkiejg
Hanson provides anecdotal impressions that may or may not be accurate. American tourism has been down throughout the world after 9/11. Having lived in Athens for three years in the mid-nineties, I take exception to Hanson's characterization that Greeks are anti-American. The socialist, PASOK dominated government is anti-American, but on a personal level, Americans are welcomed and not harassed during their travels around Greece.

Much of the official anti-Americanism stems from the US support (with perhaps CIA involvement) of the Greek junta that took over the country in 1967 and ruled until 1974 when the colonels were overthrown. A revolt by the students on November 17th, 1973 by the students at Athens Polytechnic University was brutually put down by the military. It is no accident that the Greek terrorist group that has killed a number of Americans among others is named November 17th or that the students show up annually on that date to protest in front of the US Embassy.
42 posted on 07/13/2003 6:27:59 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Cacophonous
By this reasoning we Americans should have no interests in Yugoslavia, Africa, or even most of S.E. Asia as well as others unless our direct safety or financial interests are at stake.
43 posted on 07/13/2003 6:29:14 AM PDT by Joe Boucher
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To: Joe Boucher
By this reasoning we Americans should have no interests in Yugoslavia, Africa, or even most of S.E. Asia as well as others unless our direct safety or financial interests are at stake.

Correct. I don't understand why that viewpoint is controversial. Pull ALL the troops back home. From everywhere. Let the rest of the world learn to diaper itself.

44 posted on 07/13/2003 6:30:48 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: Elkiejg
After hearing too many conspiracy theories from wild intellectuals or long diatribes about America's unfair treatment of Milosevic, I think the country's establishment needs to get a life and move on from old hurts, real and imagined, since it is all beginning to sound so tired and shrill.

Milosevic is still before the "tribunal". KLA is doing fine.

45 posted on 07/13/2003 6:30:56 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Cacophonous
I know you've already withdrawn your comments, but let me pile on a bit, belatedly: they hate us even when we REFUSE to get involved. Think of Rwanda. I heard no end of griping at the university about our "callous indifference." No, I'm afraid I personally think that there is nothing, nothing we can do (or not do) to ease their hatred of us. Our intervention or lack thereof is just an excuse. As long as we are successful and happy, they'll hate us the way children from a previous marriage hate the new baby.
46 posted on 07/13/2003 6:31:05 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (I'm an Ann Coulter soul trapped in a Janeane Garofalo body.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
Then from our standpoint, why would we risk money, resources, and most of all, the lives of American troops by getting involved? To hell with all of them if they are going to hate us.
47 posted on 07/13/2003 6:32:48 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: seamole
Kosovo - A sudden refugee crisis was destabilizing Macedonia and threatening a regional war which would affect NATO allies Italy, Greece and Turkey. Serbia was also shown to be in alliance with Iraq, Libya and China.

I am not sure about Libya, but indeed secular governments of China and Iraq were siding with Serbs in their fight against Albanian Muslim extremists. NATO was on the other side.

48 posted on 07/13/2003 6:34:30 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: demkicker
I didn't take it that way - I don't think VDH meant it was wrong for Americans to decide not to spend their money in Greece, but that it was wrong for Americans to think that Greece was that anti-American.
49 posted on 07/13/2003 6:39:19 AM PDT by Let's Roll (And those that cried Appease! Appease! are hanged by those they tried to please!")
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To: Non-Sequitur
I am not sure anyone will attend... they have not built the stadiums and the venues that are to be used for the games.
50 posted on 07/13/2003 6:41:18 AM PDT by Walkingfeather (C)
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To: kabar
but on a personal level, Americans are welcomed and not harassed during their travels around Greece. Much of the official anti-Americanism stems from the US support (with perhaps CIA involvement) of the Greek junta that took over the country in 1967 and ruled until 1974 when the colonels were overthrown. A revolt by the students on November 17th, 1973 by the students at Athens Polytechnic University was brutually put down by the military. It is no accident that the Greek terrorist group that has killed a number of Americans among others is named November 17th or that the students show up annually on that date to protest in front of the US Embassy.

Excellent background info. We've been to Greece several times since 1992 - husband's work for the Greek transit - and found the Greeks extremely hospitable. We were primarily in Athens, but even when visiting the countryside and islands, they were most accommodating. I did however, witness one example of an "ugly American" attitude in a shop where the "american" was complaining about something and the owner told them they were a guests in his country and should behave appropriately!! Couldn't fault his evaluation. After the ugly american left, I felt compelled to apologize for my countryman and try to convince him we're not all like that -- he was most gracious and we have a wonderful discussion which ended with him closing his shop and he and his wife treated me to some refreshment and a walk through the Plaka to show me some areas that aren't known to many tourists. It's amazing the change in attitude when you express genuine interest in their country and culture. I like the Greeks and their country.

51 posted on 07/13/2003 6:41:21 AM PDT by Elkiejg
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To: Elkiejg
Good article.But I need an explanation.....

If no Americans want to go to Greece, how come all the flights leaving the U.S. are booked up to Novemeber?(I did a search on travelocity).

Since they booed at the request for a moment of silence for the 911 victims, the Greeks can eat scatalogical matter.

52 posted on 07/13/2003 6:44:06 AM PDT by gitmogrunt (I love the Greeks hatred of Clinton.)
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To: Cacophonous
Because even if we withdrew completely, I believe they would continue to target us for terrorism. They hate our free market. They hate that their populace loves our culture. They hate the example we set. They hate our wealth. And most of them need someone to hate so they don't have to face their own failures. If we withdrew they would still rant about the past, demand apologies in cash form.... indeed, I wonder if they wouldn't hate us even more. There are a lot of places only barely under control and if we leave, all hell will break loose. And who will they blame? Themselves? Ha.

Now, you may say, "Fine, let 'em hate us, what can they do?" But we've seen that they can do plenty. Our borders are very porous. We'd have to clamp down at the Iron Curtain level. I can sympathize with your point of view and I think that if we did indeed clamp down HARD on immigration, it might help. But they'd still do their best to hurt our business interests overseas.

No, I think it's 70 years too late for military isolationism, tempting though it is. Communism, Socialism, and Islam are all spreading like cancers, and a huge capitalist country is a major impediment to all their agendas. They have to destroy us in order to complete what they all see as their Manifest Destiny. They have already indicated their willingness to band together in order to try and bring us down. (If they succeeded, of course, they'd turn on each other in a manner that could really cause the War To End All Wars, but that's another story.)

53 posted on 07/13/2003 6:44:28 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (I'm an Ann Coulter soul trapped in a Janeane Garofalo body.)
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To: Elkiejg
I've never been to Greece, but my impression is that the Grecians are more America-hating than the Canadians, the Germans or the French.
54 posted on 07/13/2003 6:51:58 AM PDT by rface ( Ashland, Missouri - Missouri's Democrat Gov. Holden is a POS)
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To: Cacophonous
Seems to me the Anti-Americans are the ones that wish to see us spend our blood and treasure in a doomed attempt at solving the unsolvable problems of the world.
55 posted on 07/13/2003 6:56:13 AM PDT by jpsb
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: A_perfect_lady
Before 1950 the USA was a loved and respected country. We minded our own business and tended to our own affiars. (Excluding Central/South America were we have always meddled). I can somewhat for given our leaders for being interventionist during the cold war. You do what you got to do. But there is no excuse now and we would be wise to return to our pre Cold War policy of intervention ONLY when American lives or property are at risk.
57 posted on 07/13/2003 7:04:10 AM PDT by jpsb
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Comment #58 Removed by Moderator

To: jpsb
Before 1950 the USA was a loved and respected country.

Didn't do the folks at Pearl Harbor much good, did it?

59 posted on 07/13/2003 7:13:40 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (I'm an Ann Coulter soul trapped in a Janeane Garofalo body.)
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To: seamole
I disagree, and the friendship we've seen recently from Kuwaitis, South Koreans, Iranians, Iraqis, Afghanis,

Today's Kuwaitis are tomorrow's French. Gratitude is short. Resentment is long. And the Afghanis repaid our help in the 1980s by hosting Al Qaeda, so I'm not sure I can take much heart from your observations.

...and so on, even from some Canadians and French, backs me up.

I'll have to take your word for that because I haven't seen squat from the French and the flannel French. Oh, there may be a handful of civilians who like us well enough, but that doesn't do us any good when the French government sells weapons to the Iraqis.

60 posted on 07/13/2003 7:18:10 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (I'm an Ann Coulter soul trapped in a Janeane Garofalo body.)
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