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Where have all the Americans gone? (Greece) (Victor Davis Hanson alert)
Townhall ^ | 7/13/03 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 07/13/2003 5:07:05 AM PDT by Elkiejg

Driving across the central Peloponnese recently I was struck how vastly different Greece has become since my first visit exactly thirty years ago. If in the early 1970s paved roads, phone cables, and power wires were just reaching these most remote villages, today even kids in the most isolated hamlets on Mt. Taigetos or along the Alpheios Gorge log-on to the Internet and imitate James Dean on motorcycles. Globalization and subsidies from the EU-and the free embrace of almost every American pop idol-for all the ensuing social and cultural resentment, have transformed Greece into a modern-looking European nation.

But if American popular culture has overwhelmed the country's masses, its professionals-particularly those in the ruling socialist PASOK party-have for years promulgated a particularly virulent form of anti-Americanism. It is a creed nursed on Byzantine theories surrounding the 1967 coup and the aftershocks of the 1974 Cyprus disaster, coupled with past Cold War triangulation with the Soviet Union and Euro-style resentment of the global American presence.

After hearing too many conspiracy theories from wild intellectuals or long diatribes about America's unfair treatment of Milosevic, I think the country's establishment needs to get a life and move on from old hurts, real and imagined, since it is all beginning to sound so tired and shrill. Recent shake-ups in PASOK's leadership suggest that the old anti-Americanism is wearing thin even among that party's elite. But is that realization too little and too late?

Indeed, this summer I suddenly sensed something I had not noticed in my prior annual visits: There seems to be few Americans anywhere. Germans? French? Dutch? They are ubiquitous. But there is hardly an American to be seen. America-Stop signs, reruns of "Married with Children," and MTV schlock-is everywhere; but Americans themselves are almost nowhere.

Maybe we are staying home because of the general fear of terrorism in the post 9-11 climate. Maybe it is our recession-or the steep price hikes brought on by the strong Euro. Yet I think there is also something else special to Greece going on that might explain why Americans would forgo such a safe and beautiful country, replete with a history unrivaled elsewhere. My gut feeling is that after years of splashy anti-Americanism, most Americans-quite wrongly I think-finally concluded it was a hostile place better left alone.

During the latest Iraqi war, tens of thousands of demonstrators poured into Syntagma Square to damn the United States. It is a national secret that soccer fans in the Athens stadium booed when asked for a moment of silence to honor the September 11 American dead shortly after their murder. Our relationship with Israel is openly mocked-sometimes embarrassingly so given the history of the Hellenic Jewish community during World War II. What all this reflects, I think, is that a long hallowed association-based on Cold War pragmatics, Marshall Plan money, thousands of expatriate Greeks in the United States, millions of affluent American tourists who used to flock to the islands, and singular scholarly ties and affinities-is slowly ending as we once knew it.

The American bases are all gone, except for one left on Crete-itself rumored to be reduced or even eliminated. I tried to tell some exasperated Greeks, who depend on the tourist industry and love popular American culture, that their decades of anti-American rhetoric have finally sunk in, and most folks in the heartland of the United States, to the extent they ponder Greece, think it somewhere far to the left of France.

Americans, I added, are funny folk. They don't go in much for heated conversations, fist shaking, and political graffiti sprayed on freeway overpasses. Instead, they just shrug and stay home, and ever so slowly make it known that they'd prefer their troops do the same.

What all this means I don't quite know. The Eastern Mediterranean can still be a very touchy place, the old front line of NATO's southeastern flank. Terrorists seek to use Greek waters to ship their arsenals. Turkey habitually allows its jets to fly provocatively over Greek airspace and could do far more to help resolve the Cyprus dispute. Greece is not a bellicose or aggressive nation, but it is the first real European country at the edge of a volatile Middle East-and its history with the Islamic world, whether in 1460 or 1922, is not encouraging. Its Orthodoxy also makes it a strange bedfellow with like-minded Christians in Serbia, Russia, and Armenia-not exactly stable, reliable, or popular places these days. Germans are here everywhere now and often permanently, and I wonder to what extent anyone remembers their similar intrusive presence in 1941-44-and whether an increasingly undemocratic EU controlled from Berlin is really going to continue to be so avuncular after all.

In short, if I were a Greek, remembering World War II, billions of dollars in past American aid, salvation from the Warsaw Pact, and relative peace with Turkey, I wouldn't have so easily abandoned the old special American friendship.

So as I flew out this beloved country last month, I feared that this noble people with its tragic history at last may have achieved what its elites so often and so vocally wanted for the last thirty years-a country empty of Americans.

Always beware of what you wish for.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antiamericanism; balkans; greece; hanson; vdh; victordavishanson
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To: Cacophonous
Oh, so intervention by "ones own kind" is ok...

Point is, the USA shouldn't subjugate its foreign policy to the whims, desires and expectations of a bunch of greasy faggots, or any other foreigner for that matter.
21 posted on 07/13/2003 5:25:31 AM PDT by Guillermo (Proud Infidel)
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: vharlow
My point is (and it is admittedly a poor match for Greece) that the US constantly inserts itself - many times, true, by invitation - into regions and conflicts in which no American interests are at stake. This inevitably pisses off one side or the other, or, quite frequently, both. Then we wonder why they hate us.

As I said, it probably doesn't apply to Greece, so I'll withdraw that particular reference.

23 posted on 07/13/2003 5:27:40 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: Guillermo
Point is, the USA shouldn't subjugate its foreign policy to the whims, desires and expectations of a bunch of greasy faggots, or any other foreigner for that matter.

Like the UN. I agree.

24 posted on 07/13/2003 5:28:33 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: Cacophonous
...(and it is admittedly a poor match for Greece)...

Ah, what's that you wrote, Cac? A poor match for Greece? Well, you're right there :) Guess we should just chalk that one up to blatant anti-Americanism. Their loss.

25 posted on 07/13/2003 5:33:02 AM PDT by mewzilla
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: mewzilla
I'm not going to be baited by your antagonism. I was admitting that I was wrong in applying what I said to the Greeks. I would hope you accept that with civility instead of resorting to name-calling. I would hope that those using this forum have a little more class than the typical liberal. Leave the snotty, sophomoric name-calling to them.
27 posted on 07/13/2003 5:35:50 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: seamole
The Balkans under Clinton.
28 posted on 07/13/2003 5:36:27 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: Cacophonous
The Balkans under Clinton.

Can't argue with that. He's got a point here

Still doesn't change the fact that Greeks have been conditioned to hate Americans by their politicians and complicit press.

I have seen it myself and it's the reason I have not returned in nearly 12 years. And someone like myself, who would be inclined to visit every several years will not be returning after such displays:

AEK Soccer Teams Burns American Flag

30 posted on 07/13/2003 5:53:50 AM PDT by rightisright (E Tan E Epi Tas)
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To: xJones
It was posted here at the time.

That was the last straw for me.
31 posted on 07/13/2003 6:01:03 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: Cacophonous
I was admitting that I was wrong in applying what I said to the Greeks

Isn't that the point of this thread ?

The unprovoked ant-Americanism of the Greeks whos butts we saved form Communism after WWII.

Or do you know any history?

32 posted on 07/13/2003 6:03:12 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: Cacophonous
My point is (and it is admittedly a poor match for Greece) that the US constantly inserts itself - many times, true, by invitation - into regions and conflicts in which no American interests are at stake. This inevitably pisses off one side or the other, or, quite frequently, both. Then we wonder why they hate us.

You can travel further back than Theodore Roosevelt's Great White Fleet and find plenty of anti-Americanism, and none of it will be based on interventionism. Like anti-Semitism, there has always been a strain of anti-Americanism in Europe. Perhaps it is because we were too Anglo-Saxon, too Protestant, too industrious, too free, too proud, too... whatever. We were inferior upstarts in any event, and useful only as a political pawn; the current vision of Uncle Sam as manipulator is supremely ironic.

In any event, it doesn't matter. We piss a lot of these people off only because they want to be pissed off, whether out of envy or manufactured political unrest. Kiss their butts or kick them, they seem to have the same brand of friendship for us.

And that may just be the biggest difference between us and them (Greeks inclusive).

"If you could disguise your nationality you would not find any insolence here. These shopkeepers detest the English and despise the Americans. They are rude to both, more especially to the ladies of your nationality and mine.
However, these people are not impolite to Russians or Germans. And as to rank, they worship that, for they have long been used to generals and nobles."

Mark Twain, "A Tramp Abroad," copyright 1880.

33 posted on 07/13/2003 6:07:40 AM PDT by niteowl77 (Pray for our troops... harder.)
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To: rightisright
Europe is preparing itself for a major meltdown.

I don’t think these trends can continue for another 10 years without something giving way in an ugly way.
34 posted on 07/13/2003 6:08:38 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: Cacophonous
Point of order:

Question: Who does everyone scream for help from when it is their asses being invaded?
Answer: The United States of America.

That being said, we SHOULD ignore these countries. We don't OWE them our tourist dollars, military bases and the economic boon that comes with them, or any consideration at all when it comes to matters that are important to OUR COUNTRY.

It comes down to the old saying "you have made your bed, now lay in it"

35 posted on 07/13/2003 6:13:55 AM PDT by Gringo1 (Paid for by Jesse Jackson for gun ownership.)
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To: Elkiejg
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but my picture of Greece is some guy on a motorcycle rushing by shooting at Americans. Definitely no urge to go there.
36 posted on 07/13/2003 6:18:44 AM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: edskid
That's a good point. I withdraw my comments. I know when I'm whipped.
37 posted on 07/13/2003 6:19:21 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: Guillermo
Oh, so intervention by "ones own kind" is ok...

Yes, apparently that's the logic behind the whole slavery flap too. You see, whites' involvement in slavery more than a century ago is an atrocity that must be paid for forever and ever. Modern day slavery in Africa, well, that's different dontcha know. Lots of things are only bad if WE do them: sexism, racism, commerce, military force....

38 posted on 07/13/2003 6:20:25 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (I'm an Ann Coulter soul trapped in a Janeane Garofalo body.)
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To: Gringo1
I agree completely.
39 posted on 07/13/2003 6:20:28 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: Cacophonous
I tend to agree that the USA is way to quick to jump into the affairs of other nations. Serbia, being the most recent and outragious example. We should not meddle unless our interests are clearly at risk.
40 posted on 07/13/2003 6:22:57 AM PDT by jpsb
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