Evangelical Group Says Jews Need Conversion

Deseret News ^ | Oct 12, 2002 | AP

[jstone78]

Evangelical Group Says Jews Need Conversion

WHEATON, Ill. (AP) — The World Evangelical Alliance is taking issue with an August report from U.S. Roman Catholic bishops that opposes efforts to target Jews for conversion.

The evangelical organization, an alliance of 120 national and regional church fellowships and 75 non-denominational ministries, has reaffirmed and reissued a declaration defending Jewish evangelism that was written in 1989 by 16 theologians from nine nations.

One of those theologians, the Rev. J.I. Packer, an Anglican teaching at Regent College in Vancouver, British Columbia, endorsed the reaffirmation. "Sharing Jesus Christ with our Jewish friends is as important a task as ever it was," he said.

The 27-point statement decries anti-Semitism and confesses that Christian churches have "been much to blame for tolerating and encouraging it," but says this history doesn't remove the right to share Christianity with Jews.

The Catholic bishops said deepened appreciation of God's unbroken covenant with the Jewish people means "campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer acceptable in the Catholic Church."

But the evangelical paper defends such targeted evangelism and denies that Israel's covenant relationship by itself brings salvation or that "any person can enjoy God's favor apart from the mediation of Jesus Christ."

"Faith in Jesus Christ is humanity's only way to come to know the Creator," the paper asserts.

[Technogeeb]

He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago....

So it appears that Christ preached to those who had died prior to his arrival.

Some sects believe that those "spirits who disobeyed long ago" refer to the servants of Elohim who abandoned their first estate (i.e., the "fallen" angels). This is suggested by the different word for "preach" than what is used elsewhere.

But I wouldn't be surprised if your interpretation were just as correct, since "giving everybody one more chance" is so obviously in His nature (and just one of the many ways in which He differs from His recent impersonator, the Dark Lord Allah).

[Technogeeb]

(before he even was)

Self-correction: (before he even was made manifest to man)

[ml/nj]

I recently read that the state of Israel is getting concerned and wants to bring back mandatory teaching of one of their books (sorry, I forget which one) because a large number of new recruits into their military wanted to take the oath on the New Testament.

I wouldn't go believing everything I read if I were you.

ML/NJ

[ml/nj]

Part of the covenant of Israel was the promise of redemption by the Messiah.

Really?

ML/NJ

[patriot_wes]

"The group of American Catholic Bishops who made the claim that Jews are exempt from the message of the Gospel, went against the teachings of the Catholic Church, Catholic Catechism, and Catholic Canon Law."

They also went against Jesus' own word where He said "no one comes to the Father but through the Son." When He said these words He was in a synagague on the sabbath speaking to JEWS!

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

I will not lie to myself and say I believe in something because of the fear that if I don't I might go to hell. People who believe out of fear don't really believe.

[freebilly]

Some sects believe that those "spirits who disobeyed long ago" refer to the servants of Elohim who abandoned their first estate (i.e., the "fallen" angels). This is suggested by the different word for "preach" than what is used elsewhere.

Interesting..., do you know the Greek word Peter used here for "preach"?

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

THAT'S the main reason my Jewish friends vote Democrat. To be left alone.

If that were true, I myself, would vote Democratic.

[homeschool mama]

RYE SAID:***Do you actually believe that every human that died before Jesus preached his gospel is in Hell?

BETTY SAID:***Yes. Of course they are. Otherwise, what would be the point in His coming at all? If everyone was saved anyway, His dying was a waste of time. I don't think so!

Betty, I'd appreciate if you could offer scripture to support what you're saying. What you're saying is totally unscriptural.

[Bella_Bru]

Hey Betty, I seen you signed up yesterday. Do tell, what was your former screen name?

[LostTribe]

>we "Aryan white boys" in American are really the "chosen" people….

Which do these Jews look most like:

(1) Asians
(2) Africans
(3) North/South American Indians
(4) European Celts?

Joseph Lieberman, Paul Newman, Ted Koppel, Harrison Ford, Efrem Zimbalist, Jr., Kirk Douglas, Kevin Costner, Stephen Breyer, Yitzhak Rabin, Michael Landon, Lorne Greene, Mike Wallace, Benjamin Netanyahu, William Shatner, Douglas Fairbanks, Cary Grant, Leonard Bernstein, Paul Simon, Ariel Sharon, David Frost, Morley Safer, Ari Fleischer,

Jack Benny, Alan King, Casper Weinberger, Carl Reiner, George Burns, Red Buttons, Sam Levinson, Bernard Goldberg, Robert Downey Jr., Dustin Hoffman, Michael Douglas, Peter Sellers, Tony Curtis, Edward G. Robinson, Wolf Blitzer, Mel Torme, Paul Wellstone, Peter Falk, Leonard Nimoy, Jerry Springer, Arlen Spector, William Cohen,

Barry Goldwater, Robert Rubin, William Roth, Howard Metzenbaum, Hyman Rickover, Robert Reich, Russ Feinberg, Stanley Mosk, Arthur Burns, Milton Friedman, Bill Kristol, Victor Borge, William Kristol, Warren Rudman, etc., etc, etc.

Todays Celts (Europeans and Americans) and Jews certainly do not look like Yassir Arafat, nor the classic stereotype of a "Hebrew" or "Semite".  That's because The Celts and the Jews are genetic cousins, and all are Hebrews, Semites, and Israelites.  (...without getting into the whole Khazarite controversy...)

See My LostTribe Screen Profile for more details...

[Bella_Bru]

You moticed she hasn't even tried?

[Bella_Bru]

moticed=noticed.

[Bella_Bru]

Upon looking at her other posts, I'd say this person is trying to do an impression of Betty Bowers, who is also a parody.

[Technogeeb]

And this is where your logic fails. All Jews believe in a Messiah!

No, they don't. There were jews who believed in a golden calf. They did not receive salvation. There were jews who chose to worship Baal. They, too, did not receive salvation. Being "jewish" is not sufficient for salvation; the jew must also accept the Covenant which God has provided.

They deny that Jesus was the Messiah they all believe in

Not true. Many jews (the Apostles, for example) accepted Jesus. Many of the Essene sect did as well. Many Jews continue to do so today. And before his arrival, many Jews, including Moses, had faith that God would send the Messiah for redemption, and that act of faith in God meant that they accepted the gift of salvation that he had provided.

So, the fact that Moses believed there would be a Messiah means nothing

On the contrary, it means that Moses received redemption. As the biblical quotes already provided have shown, even the Bible itself is very clear on this point. In this disagreement, you are not only disagreeing with me, but with the word of God.

Well, let's just give all the Jews who died before Jesus the benefit of the doubt Again, you lack understanding. The Covenant with the Jews only provides the opportunity of Salvation, not automatic redemption. It is the same with Christ and the Gentiles. The opportunity for salvation is there for anyone who choses to accept it. It is a free gift. But just like the person today who must make the decision to accept the gift, the jew of the past must have made the decision to accept the Covenant. Those who did not do so did not receive redemption. But the bible is very clear that those who did trust in the Covenant DID receive redemption.

and pretend they would have accepted Jesus as the Messiah they believed in!"

Not "would have", but "did". You are trying to limit the Deity to chronological time that He transcends. To suggest that Jews could not believe in a Messiah that had not yet come is the equivalent (in a time symmetrical sense) of suggesting that the Christians of today cannot believe in a Messiah that came in the past and has already left.

[Technogeeb]

Interesting..., do you know the Greek word Peter used here for "preach"?

I'm not sure, but I think all of them are variations of "kayrusso" (as in formally proclaiming something that has been done). A variation of the same root word is used in the great commission by Mark and elsewhere by Paul, so I have my doubts about the previously mentioned interpretation and suspect is is nitpicking based merely on conjugation (but the argument was vigorously promoted by the German theologian Friedrich Spitta and still has a great number of followers).

Others believe that the verse is a metaphor, and suggests that the spirit of Christ was preaching through Noah to those who could obtain salvation from the coming flood (while the ark was being built, not an unreasonable interpretation in context of later verses). Some others (primarily Catholics) use this verse as justification for the 16th century concept of "limbo", while the anabaptists believed it was merely a proclamation to the fallen angels that they had been defeated (some battles might not yet be over, but the war itself is already won).

[Your Nightmare]

Betty, do you have any concept of time. How could Jews renounce Jesus before he even came? Jews before Christ were expecting the coming of the Messiah. We have no way of knowing if they would have accepted Jesus. But I bet God has a way of knowing.