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To: Betty4Bush
And this is where your logic fails. All Jews believe in a Messiah!

No, they don't. There were jews who believed in a golden calf. They did not receive salvation. There were jews who chose to worship Baal. They, too, did not receive salvation. Being "jewish" is not sufficient for salvation; the jew must also accept the Covenant which God has provided.

They deny that Jesus was the Messiah they all believe in

Not true. Many jews (the Apostles, for example) accepted Jesus. Many of the Essene sect did as well. Many Jews continue to do so today. And before his arrival, many Jews, including Moses, had faith that God would send the Messiah for redemption, and that act of faith in God meant that they accepted the gift of salvation that he had provided.

So, the fact that Moses believed there would be a Messiah means nothing

On the contrary, it means that Moses received redemption. As the biblical quotes already provided have shown, even the Bible itself is very clear on this point. In this disagreement, you are not only disagreeing with me, but with the word of God.

Well, let's just give all the Jews who died before Jesus the benefit of the doubt Again, you lack understanding. The Covenant with the Jews only provides the opportunity of Salvation, not automatic redemption. It is the same with Christ and the Gentiles. The opportunity for salvation is there for anyone who choses to accept it. It is a free gift. But just like the person today who must make the decision to accept the gift, the jew of the past must have made the decision to accept the Covenant. Those who did not do so did not receive redemption. But the bible is very clear that those who did trust in the Covenant DID receive redemption.

and pretend they would have accepted Jesus as the Messiah they believed in!"

Not "would have", but "did". You are trying to limit the Deity to chronological time that He transcends. To suggest that Jews could not believe in a Messiah that had not yet come is the equivalent (in a time symmetrical sense) of suggesting that the Christians of today cannot believe in a Messiah that came in the past and has already left.
157 posted on 10/18/2002 11:34:07 AM PDT by Technogeeb
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