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AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)
August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

Posted on 08/22/2002 7:04:53 AM PDT by Sabertooth

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
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To: Sabertooth
I think the Mexican's are mostly honest and nice family people. We are lucky they are our neighbors.
But I don't want to finance a nickle of any social program or education for them.
If they can't afford to pay for what is taken in social services, go home.
If they want temporary visas, apply for work and don't tap our social service, FINE!
If they want to stand in line 10 years and attempt to become citizens, fine.

That aside, get the rest out of here.
901 posted on 08/28/2002 12:36:27 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: Sabertooth
I don't know if I actually said the words "no amnesty" in my previous posts. If I didn't, NO AMNESTY!
902 posted on 08/28/2002 1:28:02 PM PDT by janetgreen
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To: mhking
I was brutally beaten on the face and the raped 20 years ago by a 15 1/2 year old Mexican kid and lost a career position with the Post Office. I hate this kid, but I'm not racist. We have the right to SCREEN people who come into our country, even bi-lingual mental exams.
903 posted on 08/28/2002 1:28:57 PM PDT by madfly
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To: DKNY
My thoughts are much the same as Brownie's.

Thank you. Sabertooth and Marine Inspector are both a wealth of knowledge on immigration. We must stem the flow of illegal aliens before we lose our country and our culture. Not to mention our economy.

904 posted on 08/28/2002 1:31:48 PM PDT by Brownie74
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To: Sabertooth
Bush included the announcement of an executive order, in a 4th of July Speech to the military, granting 15,000 illegal military foreign born immediate or speedy citizenship.
http://www.shusterman.com/siu.html#4
Shusterman's Immigration Update July 2002

4. Executive Order Expedites Military Naturalization

On July 3, President Bush signed an Executive Order 13269 which waives the normal residency and physical presence requirements for certain non-citizens serving in the Armed Forces of the United States. It is estimated that there are over 15,000 men and women who are affected by this order. While non-citizens are eligible to enlist in the military, only U.S. citizens can be promoted to commissioned or warrant officers, or serve in special warfare programs such as the Navy SEALs.

On July 4, the President proclaimed to a crowd that "thousands of our men and women in uniform were born in other countries and now spend each day in honorable service to their adopted land. Many of them are still waiting for the chance to become American citizens."

Under the order, anyone with active-duty service in the military since September 11, 2001 is eligible to apply for naturalization provided that they enlisted, or re-enlisted, in the U.S. or in certain other designated places.

Importantly, it is not necessary that the applicant still be in the military, or that he/she be a permanent resident of the United States. It is even possible to naturalize if the person is ILLEGALLY present in the U.S.

Applicants under the Executive Order (issued pursuant to §329 of the Immigration and Nationality Act) must comply with other naturalization requirements such as the English and history/government examinations, and must demonstrate that they are persons of good moral character.

When I served as an INS Citizenship Attorney in the late 1970s, we recommended hundreds of Vietnam veterans for naturalization under a similar Executive Order, and they were sworn-in as U.S. citizens. The fact that many of these veterans had enlisted illegally did not bar them from naturalization as long as the military supported their applications. I can not recall a single instance where the military did not do so.

Significantly, President Bush's order does not contain an expiration date. A non-citizen who joins the military TODAY can immediately apply for naturalization. Also, it is not required that the applicant be involved in combat or in the war against terrorism.

I had a hard time finding any info on this on the web. Isn't this insane?


905 posted on 08/28/2002 1:52:02 PM PDT by madfly
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To: Brownie74
I would say you are as well, read some of your bookmarks.
906 posted on 08/28/2002 2:04:00 PM PDT by DKNY
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To: DKNY
Thanks again. If you ever have any questions about immigration law check out Title 8, Section 12. You can use the search box to find just about anything you need to know. Enjoy!!
907 posted on 08/28/2002 2:22:58 PM PDT by Brownie74
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To: Sabertooth
I support no amnesty.

In addition, I think there should be a moratorium on all immigration from any country at this time. We must secure our borders first.
908 posted on 08/28/2002 2:23:04 PM PDT by Bigg Red
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To: Sabertooth
Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

NONE SHOULD BE GRANTED AMNESTY!!! NO WAY!

909 posted on 08/28/2002 3:03:46 PM PDT by Sungirl
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To: Sabertooth
Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?
As simply and concisely as I can state...NO!
IMO if someone desires to immigrate to the US they should do so legally. I admit I'm rather indecisive on work visas/green cards. At least those folks are following the intent of the laws. I still feel that Americans suffer from such programs and we should look after our own first.
910 posted on 08/28/2002 3:05:12 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: Sabertooth
No pain, no gain.......oops, wrong poll!

NO AMNESTY, PERIOD!

Leni

911 posted on 08/28/2002 3:59:25 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: Sabertooth
Thanks for the tally! My ancestors came here on the boat, went through Ellis Island upon their arrival and subsequently studied to become U.S. citizens. They did it (and I'm darned thankful they did), and so can anyone else who wants to come to this county.
912 posted on 08/28/2002 4:42:44 PM PDT by Scully
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To: Sabertooth
I vote NEGATIVE for amnesty!!!
913 posted on 08/28/2002 5:50:52 PM PDT by Nitro
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To: Sabertooth
No amnesty and throw out any politician that advocates such an immoral and unethical thing.
914 posted on 08/28/2002 6:11:00 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: mhking
In your example, the perp wasn't being very productive. What in the world does that have to do with MY example?
915 posted on 08/28/2002 7:11:46 PM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: mhking
The next obvious question is how many John Walker Lind's did Osama send home to enlist in our armed forces?
916 posted on 08/28/2002 7:41:51 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: VA Advogado
The bottom line is that an illegal entry is an illegal entry, period. The person who is in the wrong is wrong no matter what.

To hear you tell it, it's that someone came in illegally, as long as they are doing something productive.

I'm sorry, you don't instantly lose your status as an illegal. In your example, if a burglar comes into my house, and I catch 'em while they are picking up behind themselves, then I can't shoot them.

If they're illegal, they're illegal - and quite frankly, I don't care if they're working in a productive job; that's a job that an American can have, as opposed to an interloper who is guilty of (in effect) breaking and entering our country.

I don't care if they're the most upstanding and righteous person - they're still wrong. And they've got to go!

917 posted on 08/28/2002 7:48:30 PM PDT by mhking
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To: Sabertooth
Latenight bump.
918 posted on 08/28/2002 10:27:18 PM PDT by Valin
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To: dennisw; PsyOp; Gracey; harpseal; Travis McGee; Marine Inspector; mhking
See post #905 re: recent news for aliens/illegals in the Military. 15,000 get July 4th gift.
919 posted on 08/29/2002 5:20:39 AM PDT by madfly
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To: madfly
Very interesting...

My guess is 95% of these 15,000 were legal green card holders who were in the military. The others had green cards (or visas) when they joined but green card is no longer valid (for whatever reason).

Someone from Mexico is not just going to wade cross the river and get into our Army and become a citizen.

HOWEVER someone could come on a tourist visa/ student visa/work visa/ etc. and join the Army and become a citizen. I think this could be done...

920 posted on 08/29/2002 6:58:03 AM PDT by dennisw
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