Posted on 06/23/2002 10:25:55 AM PDT by redrock
"This is free ground. All the way from here to the Pacific Ocean. No man has to bow. No man born to royalty. Here we judge you by what you do, not by who your father was. Here you can be something. Here's a place to build a home. It isn't the land--there's always more land. It's the idea that we all have value, you and me, we're worth something more than the dirt. I never saw dirt I'd die for, but I'm not asking you to come join us and fight for dirt. What we're all fighting for, in the end, is each other."
What is it that you believe???
A real question....since so many times on this forum, and others, the Republican 'mantra' has become a simple one.
Defeat the Democrats..whatever the cost..the Democrats are the enemy...(sort of Orwellian in it's simplicity)..repeated time after time...and anyone who dares to ask questions of George Bush's policies and actions is loudly shouted down.
But here's a 'news flash' for ya.......It may be that the Democratic Senators...Representitives.....leaders ARE the enemy of maintaining a Constitutional Republic.
But...the average member of the Democratic Party...is not.
The average member of the Democratic Party is just brainwashed..(for want of a better word)...
Just like the average member of the Republican Party is in danger of becoming.
"This is a party, this Republican Party, a Party for free men, not for blind followers, and not for conformists. "
So..I'll ask my very simple questions once again......
And Republicans who wish to rant and rave about 'third party' this or that...go right ahead.
But George W. Bush barely won the last election.....
You NEED staunch conservatives ( nowadays I guess we would be considered 'radical'.....) to help re-elect him....and others of the party..
CONVINCE us.........that at a certain point you will be willing to fight for 'old time values'.....
CONVINCE us ...that you have not become slavish followers of GWB...in much the same way as some did with Clinton....that you will ask the 'hard questions' (and demand the answers).
CONVINCE us.......and you will not do so by the constant dismissal of our very real concerns.
CONVINCE us.......
-----------------
So where do we 'draw the line'????
Should we elect rapists or murderers...if they are members of the Republican Party..and could 'help retake the Senate'???
At what point do you say 'this far and no further'???
Must every single American 'prostitute' themselves in order for one political party (one which on CLOSE examination is no different than the other one) to 'control' government???
I have certain values and beliefs...based upon my Belief in God.
Should I just throw those Beliefs and Values away...and close my eyes....just so the Republicans can win???
The basis of this Nation is a hardcore belief that the values and ideals (sorry to use that word..ideals...seems that word anymore has the same effect on Republicans as a Cross does to evil) that founded this Nation are important....
You may have to cut him a little slack. He really DOES believe Bubba-2 is a conservative.
Well, let's see.
I can no longer live in the state of California - I left in 1988 - because of guns that I own. Plus, after 1994, the type of guns that I like to shoot can no longer be imported into the US - that's an infringement on the 2nd Amendment.
If I speak against the Federal Government's "War on Terror" in public, the attorney general of the US has said - and the so-called "Patriot Act" states - that I might be considered a terrorist. So there goes freedom of speech, the 1st Amendment.
The government, both federal and other, have shown how much they like to confiscate property - simply because you *might* be committing a crime. And it's damned hard to get it back - plus it will cost you a lot of money. Go to www.fear.org (Forfeiture Endangers Americans' Rights) if you want to see stats. That's the 5th Amendment.
The federal government in many, many ways has taken away the rights of the individual states. Just one recent case is when Bush signed the Education bill a few weeks ago. That's the 10th Amendment.
Using Echelon, Carnivore, and God only knows what other tools, the government surveils our phone calls, email, etc. That's the 4th Amendment.
People are being locked up without access to an attorney and without even being accused of a crime, especially since 9/11. There are people now behind bars that have been there for months - even years - who have never been charged with a crime. That's the 6th Amendment.
I could go on and on.
If you're happy and you know it, clank your chains.
Good for you. I agree. Now let's just hope that the electoral system isn't so badly broken - i.e. vote fraud - that our votes won't matter anyway.
Very well stated! Count me in as part of your pragmatic idealists. If the use of the word "true conservative" is what I have seen on these posts recently attacking Jim and the rest of us for daring to disagree with them with our support of our President and wanting a Republican Congress, then I am comfortable just being called a flat out Republican that leans conservative. In OK where I live, voting for conservatives is an easy task since moderate Republicans in this part of the Country are not that plentiful.
I am not a one issue voter and never will be. I prefer to see the big picture and that is Republicans in charge of the entire Congress so we can control the Chairmanships. Guess that makes me NOT a "true conservative" whatever that means!
Going to be one of those folks that has a long memory of who was with us or against us! And I don't think I am the only one!
How does supporting Republicans like McCain & Jeffords do anything but harm the party and pull it *further* from its foundations?
I'll take that as an acknowledgment of lost freedoms.
I guess if it doesn't affect you directly...
Me too! It's just amazing to me how many people will take the position that if the President doesn't agree with them on every issue, then he is not a good president, as some even say a traitor. Blah!
I didn't bother to answer the original questions on this topic because the very nature of the persons post and questions proves they do not have a real clue about the real world. In fact I consider myself a Conservative Republican, but would have trouble supporting a candidate with the rigid views that are expressed by so many of the anti Bush people here. They live in a dream world. Maybe idealistic from their point of view, but dream world regardless.
I can no longer live in the state of California - I left in 1988 - because of guns that I own. Plus, after 1994, the type of guns that I like to shoot can no longer be imported into the US - that's an infringement on the 2nd Amendment.
What type of gun would that be?
If I speak against the Federal Government's "War on Terror" in public, the attorney general of the US has said - and the so-called "Patriot Act" states - that I might be considered a terrorist. So there goes freedom of speech, the 1st Amendment.
Have you even spoken out in public? Isn't FR.com considered a public forum? I think you might be over exaggerating on this one. If what you say is true, then everyone on FR.com has 'breached' the patriot act in some form or another.
The government, both federal and other, have shown how much they like to confiscate property - simply because you *might* be committing a crime. And it's damned hard to get it back - plus it will cost you a lot of money. Go to www.fear.org (Forfeiture Endangers Americans' Rights) if you want to see stats. That's the 5th Amendment.
Might be committing a crime? Sounds a bit nutty to me. Admittedly, I am not that familiar with the 5th amendment. But, if you haven't comitted a crime, isn't your fear unwarranted?
The federal government in many, many ways has taken away the rights of the individual states. Just one recent case is when Bush signed the Education bill a few weeks ago. That's the 10th Amendment.
And yet, the Philadelphia school district is now run by a private company. We have a sh!t-load of charter schools here in Michigan. I fail to see how holding school districts accountable takes away a State's rights.
Using Echelon, Carnivore, and God only knows what other tools, the government surveils our phone calls, email, etc. That's the 4th Amendment.
And you have undeniable proof they are listening and monitoring you?
People are being locked up without access to an attorney and without even being accused of a crime, especially since 9/11. There are people now behind bars that have been there for months - even years - who have never been charged with a crime. That's the 6th Amendment.
And they are not American citizens. This is a catch-22 because no matter what the gov't does, it can't win. Detain questionable people and possibly prevent further terrorist strikes, or, release them and be the scapegoat when an attack occurs. If these were Mexican illegals who were being held, would you still feel the same?
I would be very interested in hearing what your solutions are to the above 'loses' of freedom.
Up until some point in the 60s or 70s you could carry concealed on a plane. And before 9/11, unreasonable searches at the airports were less likely. Also, no a state cannot make a law that overrides the Constitution. Shall not be infringed means shall not be infringed. It doesn't matter "what type of gun." That's an admission of lost freedom right there.
I would still like to know at what point you would say "Hey, that's a lost freedom." Could you tell me that?
When exactly were the conceal/carry laws changed for airplanes? As far as unreasonable, that depends. Again, if you have nothing to hide, why is it a violation of your freedom to promote safety? If 9-11 hadn't happened, and an airport worker asked to search your bag, would you let them? How would you propose, in light of 9-11, that security be done at airports?
I guess I'm of the mind that *IF* I felt I had lost a freedom, I'd do my damn hardest to get those freedoms back. I guess working in corporate life has made me a 'if you present a problem, present a solution' kinda gal.
(beating my head against the wall)
This is why:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Well yeah, but the trouble is, by the time you felt you had lost a freedom, it would probably be long past the time to do something about it.
Just because I don't live in NY or CA, doesn't mean I haven't lost freedom due to their unconstitutional laws. If even a few states in America don't honor the Constitution, we have all lost freedom.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.