Altar boys are paying the price of Vatican II

(London) Telegraph ^ | 12/04/2002 (That's April 12, Brit style) | Stuart Reid

[aristeides]

I doubt if there was no active homosexuality among the Catholic clergy before Vatican II. I doubt if the rumors about Cardinal Spellman were without substance, especially in view of recent revelations. I doubt if Goebbels would have bothered to make pederasty the center of his propaganda against the Catholic Church if the charges had been entirely without foundation. After all, the Catholic Church is centered in Italy, a country that has long been tolerant of pederasty.

That said, I am sure the problem of active homosexuality has become much worse in recent decades. No doubt there have always been a lot of priests with homosexual orientations, but I suspect that until recenty the great majority of them either were celibate or practised their vice secretly and with restraint.

[weikel]

Gee maybe they are paying the price for the church ordaining homos.

[Temple Drake]

gee -- ya think?

[aristeides]

If you are saying the Church should not ordain celibate homosexuals, I entirely disagree. The trouble is that, in our sex-obsessed age, very few homosexuals remain celibate any longer.

[Clemenza]

After all, the Catholic Church is centered in Italy, a country that has long been tolerant of pederasty.

Thems fighting words! If you want to see a society TRULY in the throes of pederasty, go to England. Even Tony Blair is kind of swishy.

[weikel]

Its a risk to children the boy scouts don't knowingly let homosexuals be troop leaders and they don't have this problem I say admit married homosexuals if I remember the Celibacy rule was enacted in the Middle Ages because they didn't want Bishops to have sons who would claim Feudal Birthrights to church lands. No way should homosexuals celibate or otherwise be given jobs near young boys.

[aristeides]

You're right, of course, about England.

[gcruse]

If the problem is only homosexuality, replacing altar boys with girls might help.

[txzman]

"If you are saying the Church should not ordain celibate homosexuals, I entirely disagree. The trouble is that, in our sex-obsessed age, very few homosexuals remain celibate any longer.

Besides the fact that the Bible calls it a sin and and abomination. Many Christians fail to remember that Christ talked long and often about how you think is often a sin before the act is ever committed.

It makes me shudder how these practicing Priests could resolve the hypocrisy of their actions against their professed faith.

[N. Theknow]

There have always been homosexual priests, of course, many of them very good men.

Gives an entirely different meaning to the term, "Fruits of the Spirit" now doesn't it?

[uncbob]

Well the only way this mess is going to get cleaned up in the USA is if the Pope appoints a special represenative with unlimited powers to purge the system.

No other way is possible since those IN CHARGE are the problem

[biblewonk]

Christ, it was embarrassing.

This pretty much sums up the whole problem with the RCC. You'd never hear a good Catholic use Mary's name in vain.

[gcruse]

how you think is often a sin before the act is ever committed.

[Dinsdale]

I don't understand his arguement. Vatican II caused all of this?

Pardon my french but, Bull. Priests were molesting alter boys well before Vatican II (you can bet it happened all the way back to the early church). Anglicans (CofE overseas) were involved in molesting there charges along with catholics in the canadian schools for native children (it's going to bankrupt the canadian catholic and anglican churches). This went on all through the 19th and early 20th centuries.

There is not one major orginized religion that has not had a child molester on the pulpit (yep that includes your religion whatever it is). Also schools have this problem. They are attracted to positions of authority with access to children. Simple as that.

[uncbob]

but the rot is almost certain to continue, and perhaps grow worse when John Paul II dies. We'd better watch out.

Well he sure hasn't done anything to correct it

[Warhammer]

On Thursday in Holy Week, the Pope felt compelled to denounce paedophilia in priests as the work of the Devil

If they are committing the work of the Devil, why are they still priests? I'm not Catholic, so please forgive my igorance, but shouldn't they be at least defrocked by the Church (if not excommunicated) and turned over to the authorities? The Pope can't do the turning over to the authorities, but I would think that he darn sure could excommunicate and/or defrock the offenders. If he's going to be taken seriously, he's got to do something like that.

[gcruse]

Ooops. Now the rest of the story.

how you think is often a sin before the act is ever committed.

That's why, as they pass the collection plate around, I think
about putting something in it and smilingly pass it along.

[aristeides]

True that sexual thoughts, including homosexual ones, can, at least in Catholic thought, be sinful. To say that the Bible calls them an "abomination," however, seems to me to be going rather far. I don't think you can find me a passage that does this. I think "abomination" applies only to acts.

In any case, the sexual thoughts that are sins are thoughts that one chooses, and luxuriates in. A feeling of attraction that is not chosen cannot be a sin, in Catholic teaching. And it can be a route to good, by, for example, serving as motivation for dedicated teaching.

[ArrogantBustard]

In 10 years as an altar boy and 4 years as a lector, at three different parishes, 16 years in Catholic schools (including university) and many years as an adult Catholic I never saw any evidence that any of the priests were homosexual or pederasts. But I wasn't in Boston, either.

[Aliska]

Homosexuality took hold in England before it did here. Maybe we can blame protestant liberalism for that.

England has had a couple bugger boy priests. One was reported in the Target, an English catholic newspaper.