Russia is spending surprisingly little on its war on Ukraine

Insider ^ | Jun 1, 2023 | Phil Rosen

[Mount Athos]

The direct fiscal cost of the war — spending on soldiers and machines — is estimated to be about 3% of Russia's GDP, or roughly $67 billion a year, according to the report.

By historical standards, the current war pales in comparison. The Soviet Union during World War II, for example, spent about 61% of GDP, and the US at the same time put about 50% of its GDP toward the conflict.

...Printing additional cash to fund the war would push inflation higher and weigh on Russia's citizens. Saddling banks with war debt could do the same, and both options in turn could harm Vladimir Putin's political aims.

[discostu]

3% of your GDP in a war where you’ve gained about 100 yards in the last year is a lot. Sure not as much as when they GOT invaded. But of course this is only saying “direct” costs. Are mercenaries “direct”?

[BroJoeK]

Red6: "It was over in weeks, just like Iraq was over in 3 weeks.
The insurgent/guerilla war and psyop campaign which follows can last years, especially with outside influence fueling it, no different than Iran, Syria were for us in Iraq."

For the current ground-truth status of the Ukraine war, see my post #58 above to Worldtraveler.

In summary, Ukrainians have won back about half the territory seized by Russian forces as of March 2022.

Ukraine's highly touted and long awaited "spring offensive", using the latest in Western hardware and training, may or may not, liberate the other half of Russian occupied Ukrainian territory.

It's not guerilla warfare.

[BroJoeK]

A strike: "Believing USG/NATO estimates is the same as sitting in kindergarden chairs attentively listening to Karine or HerrDoktor FauciMengelsGates or esteemed scientist John Kerry."

Should I take your words here to mean you imagine Russian numbers are more believable?

And your reason for saying that is what, exactly?

[AndyTheBear]

Look, you ask me to “consider the source”...and I am hearing two different groups of sources each with pom-poms chanting for one side or another. So I look at the value of the Rubble. I have no illusion that it tells me the entire story of the Russian economy, and I do know that Central banks always manipulate their fiat currency. This happens for every country. Countries that are falling apart however have their currencies collapse and their central banks are helpless to stop it. I note this is not the case with Russia, at least not yet. Not because I think I know everything that can be said, but because I don’t have any better info than what I can get myself and I know something about forex markets.

[AndyTheBear]

Converting rubles to USD in Russia is not a simple task. And taking any currency out of the country is even more difficult and costly.

Indeed its difficult if your forex broker falls under the jurisdiction of the sanction against Russia. The idea was to collapse the currency, but on the evidence it did not work. Its hardly surprising that Russia's central bank took steps to manipulate the price of the Rubble during this sanction--heck under normal circumstances central banks are always manipulating fiat currencies.

However the sanction hardly means the price of the Rubble is completely disconnected from its real value. Like with oil the sanction is not complete. And obviously currency is very fungible.

[Rdct29]

So the deeply religious Ukrainian people will be happy when they are forced to implement the agenda of Nuland, Soros and the other billionaire douchebags? That's what they will get if they win. Anyone who doubts that isn't paying attention. They are already implementing the gay agenda during the war. There are tens of thousands of Christian men dying to implement the homo transvestite agenda. That's ridiculous. The NWO assholes win no matter what.

[DUMBGRUNT]

—”Like with oil the sanction is not complete. And obviously currency is very fungible.”

Russian oil sales and sanctions are most interesting to watch.

China and India are buying all they can get at rock-bottom prices and paying in Yuan and Rupees!
Russia now holds billions of Rupees of little value to them.
The Yuan is currently useful to them.

And in a nice bit of arbitrage China and India are at the same time selling oil! At a much better price!
This in turn adds to the total market volume and tends to depress prices.
The Russians understand the mechanism and still keep selling because slowing or stopping an oil well is not a best practice and can harm the well. Also, they have no available storage.

[blitz128]

Agreed, I will say the ruble is a bit of an oddity when it comes to currency, volume is low so manipulation is easier not that I know anything

What I suspect is the one and two sources of income for Russia is petro chemicals and military exports

Their income from petro is down and what we don’t know is the difference between net and gross. I am sure they are selling lots of oil, esp to China and India but at what price and what is the overhead on that
Distilled products is where they are really hurting. China and India have their won refineries. They are happy to buy the oil and then sell the distilled or use them either way they are making out
What matters to the world is that the oil is still out there. Now that might change as destruction of infrastructure grows so we will see
The other big hit is natural gas their sales are way down, they do t have the liquified gas infrastructure
Military sales I would shine have gone to near zero I think they need all they have including stuff made for export originally so there is a hurt
Then there are the banking and frozen asset issues
They may be getting parts through but I imagine the price is at a premium

Then there is their workforce which is already demographically challenged and getting worse as they pull working age men out of market along with those who fled.

Lastly there is the cost of the war, people now are having to be paid and supported rather than producing, and actuall cost of the war. Those missiles they like to launch are not cheap, and the expensive kit they have lost are not easily replaced. Despite what Putin may think he does not have the power of the Soviet Union to produce at anywhere near that level sanctions or no sanctions

So do I know anything, no, but Their expenses are way up, their revenue is down
And their reported numbers on deficit spending revenue…. are not great and that is what they are reporting
I liken it to China and their numbers.

[AndyTheBear]

Yep, those buying the oil from Russia are gonna sell it for a profit. Oil is not as fungible as a fiat currency but it is fungible enough for Russia to sell oil albeit at not quite as good a price for them.

[AndyTheBear]

For what its worth I myself would not trade on the RUB even without sanctions anyway. I only trade the 8 major fiat currencies.

[BroJoeK]

Rdct29: "So the deeply religious Ukrainian people will be happy when they are forced to implement the agenda of Nuland, Soros and the other billionaire douchebags?"

I'd say that Ukrainians have shown remarkable resistance to having the values of other nations or ideologies imposed on Ukraine.
That's what their 2005 Orange Revolution and their 2014 Euro-Maidan Revolt were all about.

Rdct29: "That's what they will get if they win.
Anyone who doubts that isn't paying attention.
They are already implementing the gay agenda during the war."

Ukraine is generally more conservative than the United States, more tolerant than Russia.
By law, LGBTQ are not discriminated against, but same-sex marriages are not allowed.
In March 2023 a bill was introduced in Ukraine's parliament to ammend the constitution and allow same-sex marriages.

I am certain Ukraine's elected representatives will decide what is in Ukraine's best interests.

Rdct29: "There are tens of thousands of Christian men dying to implement the homo transvestite agenda.
That's ridiculous.
The NWO assholes win no matter what."

In 1991 Ukrainians made homosexuality lawful.
Since 2015, homosexuality is accepted by law in employment and the military, but not same-sex marriages or adoptions by same-sex couples.
Since 2011, transgender identities and medical procedures are lawful.

The issue today is same-sex marriages, which are now being debated in Ukraine's parliament.
Ukraine's President Zelenskyy has said there should be no changes to Ukraine's constitution, which now forbids same-sex marriage, until after the war is over.

I have no idea what that other nonsense you're talking about is.

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

--- "Only time will tell..."

We concur in this. Only time will tell.

[Red6]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/02/06/israel-ukraine-war-russia-hawk-air-defense-netanyahu/ (background - old junk)

Mr Z., the international money and arms beggar to whom no-one may say no, has asked Israel to pay homage also, and of course we pressure Israel, so they oblige: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/netanyahu-putin-ukraine-israel-russia-iran-us-rcna72742 By sending mostly old junk.

The point being that Israel and Russia actually share good relations.

Do you know why Russia and Israel would want to install an encrypted security line between the two nations: https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4526082,00.html Do you know who it is they are worried about listening to them?

Israel is on good terms with us, but they are also on decent terms with the Russians.

The argument someone proposed is that Russia attack Israel. What?!?!?! They are on good terms with one another.

[Red6]

Ukraine cannot even pay their public employees anymore. They cannot finance their mercenaries without our aid. Roughly 2/3rds of all their military hardware at this point is supplied by others.

We are keeping this going, no differently than Iran, Syria, and some financiers in Saudi Arabia (even though they are an ally some rich folks there were paying for things in Iraq) kept that going.

Since you want to talk about firsts or biggest since WWII, how about these:

-—We are funding and arming the biggest mercenary army ever assembled in Ukraine. Up until just recently we were talking about international banns on mercenaries and most the Western media was highly derogatory about them.

-—We are allowing for the active recruitment of these mercenaries out of the Ukrainian consulates and embassies in Western nations, that was never done before.

-—We are allowing our tax money to be used for Ukrainian IO operations which target Western audiences and our governments say nothing.

-—We have provided more money and more weapons to Ukraine than any other nations in history in terms of military aid in that short period of time. We have pumped as much money into Ukraine, as we have in Israel since we started arming them under Kennedy (1960s).

-—We have coerced nations into sanctioning Russia, yet they get their energy and food from Russia: Egypt, Pakistan, Sri Lanka

-—We are providing in some cases state of the art technologies which we only export to very select nations, Ukraine not having been one of them before this war.

-—We never after WWII found neo NAZI groups to be good or accepted them spreading their ideology before, but I guess the old saying “the enemy of your enemy is your friend,” really is true: https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/ https://time.com/5926750/azov-far-right-movement-facebook/

-—We (of course there is plausible deniability) likely blew up the Nordstream pipeline. Blowing up a pipeline through which an ally gets a great share of their energy, that’s a first!

-—We saw Western media in some cases actually condoning and talking highly of blatant acts of terrorism, such as the killing of a pro-Russian blogger by a bomb in St Petersburg. I guess terrorism is so bad, as long as it’s good terrorism, and we get to decide what that is.

The ONLY difference is scale. We are supplying Ukraine with money, weapons, intel, training, logistics, and are willing to take things further regards sanctions and trying to hurt Russian gas and oil exports at an unprecedented scale. Turn that spigot off, and the war would have been long over.

This is our war, Ukraine is merely supplying the bodies and in some cases these aren’t even Ukrainian but are coming from as far away as Columbia, Brazil...

Yes, this is a guerilla war, the only difference is that in this case the outside influence “us” is fueling this conflict in truly epic proportions, not with a few mortar rounds, IR barriers to be used in IEDs, NVGs, sniper rifles, newer RPGs, hand held GPS receivers, and a few Quds forces advising the belligerents like Sadr and his militia in Iraq... No, what we’re doing is HUGE!

This really is impressive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

[alexander_busek]

To most of your points, I would simply say, "So what?"

They are mostly non sequiturs.

What is it you are (still) trying to prove? That this is a "guerilla war?!"

By any common definition of the term, this is by no means a "guerilla war!"

Ukraine has fielded entire divisions, and is fighting largely by conventional means (tanks, artillery, aircraft).

So...

1) This isn't a "guerilla war," according to the standard definition.

2)Your assertions (even if they were true) about Ukraine's current conduct of the war have little to nothing to do with the concept of "guerilla warfare" anyway.

3) Many of your claims about Ukraine's conduct of the war apply equally well to Russia's conduct of the war. (Use of "mercenaries?" What is the "Wagner Group," then?)

4) So what IF it were a "guerilla war?" Why should that in any way affect my view that Putin launched the bloodiest war cum-land-grab in Europe since WWII, and that he must not be allowed to win?

Regards,

[BroJoeK]

Red6: "Mr Z., the international money and arms beggar to whom no-one may say no, has asked Israel to pay homage also, and of course we pressure Israel, so they oblige:... By sending mostly old junk."

Nearly every country in the world which has "old junk" sent it to Ukraine -- meaning Old Soviet tanks, BMPs, war planes, ammunition, etc. -- where it seems Ukrainians have made good use of it.
Israel, being in a near constant state of war since before 1947, would have very little "old junk" to left send, and my list in post #60 above does not reflect any "old junk".

Red6: "The point being that Israel and Russia actually share good relations."

Of course they do, since about 15% of Israelis are Russian speakers.
Of those circa 1,300,000 Russian speakers, roughly 1/3 come from Russia itself, 1/3 from Ukraine and 1/3 from former Soviet countries like Belarus, Moldova and the Baltics.
Israel naturally keeps on good terms with all of them.

Israel's relations with Russia did not prevented Israel from sending weapons to Russia's invaded neighbor Georgia, and now to Ukraine.

Red6: "Do you know why Russia and Israel would want to install an encrypted security line between the two nations: ...
Do you know who it is they are worried about listening to them?"

I doubt if encrypted security lines among nations are in the least unusual.

Red6: "Israel is on good terms with us, but they are also on decent terms with the Russians.
The argument someone proposed is that Russia attack Israel. What?!?!?!
They are on good terms with one another."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has strained relations with Israel:

"In February 2022, Israeli Foreign Minister Yair Lapid and Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett expressed support for Ukraine following the Russian military invasion of the country.[14]

Despite not repeating Lapid's condemnation of Russia after invasion took place, Bennett expressed support for Ukraine, stating 'our hearts are with the civilians who through no fault of their own have been thrust into this situation,' and also offered humanitarian assistance to the Ukrainians and help to Jews who wanted to leave Ukraine.[15][16]
Bennet is hesitant to assign blame on Russia due to their presence in Syria, saying only that there would be 'continued regular discussions and assessments of the situation to evaluate future consequences (to the extent that there are any) for Israel.'[16]
On 23 February 2022, the day before the invasion took place, Lapid stated that Israel would support territorial integrity and sovereignty.[17]

On February 25, 2022, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy requested Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett to mediate in the confrontation with Russia, according to the Ukrainian envoy to Israel.[18]
On 5 March 2022, Prime Minister Bennett flew to Moscow and held a three-hour meeting with Putin about the situation in Ukraine, after which Bennett spoke to Zelenskyy by phone and flew to Germany to meet with Chancellor Olaf Scholz.[19]
Bennett also brought up the subject of the significant Jewish community caught up in the Ukraine conflict during their three-hour discussion in the Kremlin, according to the Israeli source.[19][20]...

...On October 26, 2022, the president of Ukraine said that relations between Israel and Ukraine are warming up and are in a positive trend due to Israeli intelligence assistance to Ukraine about the Iranian drones in the Russian invasion.[24]
It is estimated that around 15,000 Ukrainian refugees are living in Israel.[25]"

The total number of Ukrainian-origin Jews living in Israel is said to be circa 500,000.

[BroJoeK]

Red6: "Ukraine cannot even pay their public employees anymore.
They cannot finance their mercenaries without our aid.
Roughly 2/3rds of all their military hardware at this point is supplied by others."

We must suppose that, given the economic disruptions in Ukraine caused by Vlad the Invader, Ukraine's normal government revenues are virtually nill.
Pre-war, 2021 Ukraine government spending ran around US $30 billion, or roughly 20% of their nominal GDP.
Since Vlad's invasion in 2022, the US and EU pledged a total of around $65 billion in financial aid, in addition to military hardware and humanitarian supplies.
Of that, 40% is from the USA.

As for military hardware supplied to Ukraine, if I understand correctly, the largest single supplier of military hardware to Ukraine is Vlad the Invader, whose orcs have abandoned more usable Russian equipment than Ukraine had to begin the war with.

Red6: "We are keeping this going, no differently than Iran, Syria, and some financiers in Saudi Arabia (even though they are an ally some rich folks there were paying for things in Iraq) kept that going."

A total of 45 countries, plus over 100 companies and NGOs have contributed aid to Ukraine:

Red6: "We are funding and arming the biggest mercenary army ever assembled in Ukraine.
Up until just recently we were talking about international banns on mercenaries and most the Western media was highly derogatory about them."

Ukraine is estimated to have around 10 million men of military age, of whom it's thought 1 million are currently serving.
One year ago, the number of foreign volunteers serving Ukraine's army was said to be around 20,000 and there have been no updates since.

The list of non-Russian militaries fighting for Russia against Ukraine is also quite long and includes:

1. Wagner Group (from Old Soviet countries, Syria and Eastern Europe)

2. Kadyrov's Chechens

3. pro-Putin National Liberation Movement

4. neo-Nazi Russian National Unity

5. the National Bolshevik Other Russia party

6. volunteers from Germany, Hungary and Serbia

7. Serbian units within the pro-Russian forces include the International Brigade, Seventh Brigade, Serbian-Hussar Regiment, Ural Unit, First Slavic Unit, Batman Unit, Rezanj Unit[34] and the Jovan Šević Detachment.[35]

8. Left-wing volunteers have gone to fight for the pro-Russian forces, accusing the Ukrainian government of being a "fascist state" and seeking to engage in an "anti-fascist struggle".
   However, these leftist volunteers have co-operated with far-right groups in Donbas.[36]
   Among the initial volunteers were members of the Communist Party of Ukraine, as well as some members of trade unions and labor organizations opposed to the new government that emerged after the Ukrainian Revolution.

9. A small number of Spanish socialists travelled to Ukraine to fight for the separatists, with some explaining they were "repaying the favour" to Russia for the USSR's support to Republicans during the Spanish Civil War.[25][43]
   They were also enlisting in solidarity with those who died in the Unions House fire.[44][45]
   Spanish fighters established the 'Carlos Palomino International Brigade', which fought under the flag of the Second Spanish Republic.

10. Far-right foreign fighters from Europe and to a lesser extent North America have fought alongside the pro-Russian separatists in Donbas, including white nationalists, neo-Nazis, fascists and Christian extremists.
    Motivations for these fighters have included the belief that they are fighting America and Western interests and that Vladimir Putin is a bulwark for traditional white European values who they must support against the decadent West.

11. One notable far-right group is the French organisation Continental Unity, which has been accused of recruiting far-right extremists across Europe to come and fight in Donbas. [25]
    Other far-right groups include the Bulgarian nationalist Orthodox Dawn Battalion[52] and the Hungarian nationalist Legion of Saint Istvan.[53]

12. Finnish far-right and neo-Nazi groups have been recruited for the Donbas war by Johan Bäckman and Janus Putkonen who are aligned with the local pro-Russian party.[54][55][56][57]

13. Following its 2022 offensive, US and Ukrainian intelligence have alleged that Russia has sought to hire and already deployed fighters from forces it supports in places such as Syria,[59] Libya[60] and the Central African Republic under the command of the Wagner Group private military forces.[61]
    Fighters have reportedly included those from the pro-Syrian government National Defense Forces,[62] Central African Union of Peace[61] and the pro-Khalifa Haftar Libyan National Army.[63]

14. In January 2023, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported that just under 2000 soldiers of the Syrian Arab Army, specifically the 25th Special Mission Forces Division, had been deployed to fight on behalf of Russia in Ukraine.
    The SOHR had obtained a document allegedly from the Syrian Government, explaining the Syrian Army's budget and salaries affecting Syrian soldiers in Ukraine.[68]

Red6: "We are allowing for the active recruitment of these mercenaries out of the Ukrainian consulates and embassies in Western nations, that was never done before."

Except by Russian embassies in friendly countries recruiting for Vlad the Invader, of course.

Red6: "We are allowing our tax money to be used for Ukrainian IO operations which target Western audiences and our governments say nothing."

It's certainly true that US media & internet sites almost exclusively support Ukraine.
How many of those are being directly fed propaganda by the Ukrainian government is unknown.
A reasonable guess is that their support for Ukraine is to be found less in what facts they do report than in what they don't -- bad news about Ukrainian losses, mistakes, failures, defeats and low morale, if any.

Red6: "We have provided more money and more weapons to Ukraine than any other nations in history in terms of military aid in that short period of time.
We have pumped as much money into Ukraine, as we have in Israel since we started arming them under Kennedy (1960s)."

Ukraine is arguably Russia's greatest invasion since the Second World War, and the Western response has been, of necessity, correspondingly robust.

Inflation adjusted US aid to Israel since 1949 is circa $250 billion, considerably more than US aid to Ukraine since 2022.

Red6: "We have coerced nations into sanctioning Russia, yet they get their energy and food from Russia: Egypt, Pakistan, Sri Lanka"

There is a long list of countries who support Vlad the Invader directly or indirectly through abstentions or non-voting in the United Nations:

Red6: "We never after WWII found neo NAZI groups to be good or accepted them spreading their ideology before, but I guess the old saying “the enemy of your enemy is your friend,” really is true:"

The entire accusation of "Nazis" or "neo-Nazis" is utterly insane, especially considering that some such groups are supporting Vlad the Invader's orcs in Ukraine!!

Red6: "We (of course there is plausible deniability) likely blew up the Nordstream pipeline.
Blowing up a pipeline through which an ally gets a great share of their energy, that’s a first!"

Clearly, we (the USA) are the beneficiaries of that sabotage, and so naturally we're the prime suspects.
On the other hand, nobody knows for certain who did it, or who knew ahead of time about it, or who may have paid for whomever did the work.
The only one we can be almost certain didn't do it was Vlad the Invader.

Red6: "We saw Western media in some cases actually condoning and talking highly of blatant acts of terrorism, such as the killing of a pro-Russian blogger by a bomb in St Petersburg.
I guess terrorism is so bad, as long as it’s good terrorism, and we get to decide what that is."

I've never seen a single American support terrorism against journalists or bloggers.
I do seem to remember there was something a bit more complicated going on there -- the pro-Russian blogger was supporting one particular faction within Russia, opposed by a different faction?

Red6: "The ONLY difference is scale. We are supplying Ukraine with money, weapons, intel, training, logistics, and are willing to take things further regards sanctions and trying to hurt Russian gas and oil exports at an unprecedented scale.
Turn that spigot off, and the war would have been long over."

Maybe, maybe not.
By all reports, Ukrainians seemed determined to fight and win their independence from Vlad the Invader's orcs and allies.
Without significant worldwide aid, Ukrainians would likely be fighting a much more guerilla-style war from pockets of resistance around Ukraine and from friendly foreign countries.

The war would never be over, and will never be over, until all Russian forces are withdrawn from all of Ukraine.

Red6: "This is our war, Ukraine is merely supplying the bodies and in some cases these aren’t even Ukrainian but are coming from as far away as Columbia, Brazil..."

Nonsense!
It's Ukraine's War of Independence, equivalent to our Revolutionary War, and just as we received major military and financial aid from foreign countries, so is Ukraine today.
But France's aid to us did not make it "France's War", it was still our war to fight and win, or lose, just as today it's Ukraine's war to win or lose.

Red6: "Yes, this is a guerilla war, the only difference is that in this case the outside influence “us” is fueling this conflict in truly epic proportions, not with a few mortar rounds, IR barriers to be used in IEDs, NVGs, sniper rifles, newer RPGs, hand held GPS receivers, and a few Quds forces advising the belligerents like Sadr and his militia in Iraq... No, what we’re doing is HUGE!"

Relatively speaking, our aid to Ukraine is not as huge as was the Revolutionary War aid to us from France, Spain, the Netherlands and others.

It's also worth remembering that for over 100 years now, we've had no closer allies and friends than the Brits.
Indeed, the Brits today are on very good terms with (nearly?) all of their former colonies.
So independence does not necessarily mean permanent hostility.

[Red6]

Hey,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12214481/China-talks-build-military-base-Cuba-triggering-alarm-White-House.html (I am not sure if this is even true or just media hype, but if it is...)

I hope we respect Cuba’s “sovereignty.”

A nations sovereignty is all important, regardless of how this impacts its neighbors.

All of 2021 and 2022 our media and politicians were on a world sovereignty tour, so I am sure we’re totally fine with this.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/09/01/joint-statement-on-the-u-s-ukraine-strategic-partnership/ sovereignty.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3488/text sovereignty.

In fact, I think Cuba should put some missiles there, maybe a missile defense system that largely renders our nuclear deterrence worthless, lots of antennas and some boats which they can park right off the shore of Eglin, Tyndall and Hurburt... Respect their sovereignty.

[Red6]

Sorry I didn’t respond to you.

It’s just too much...

Israel has junk too. Heck they were operating our Vietnam era river boats when I was there in 95, they were still using no kidding WWII Sherman tanks in some roles in their military. I think they still use the M60 and maybe even 48. Desperate and with their back to the wall potentially, they try to use everything they can including old junk and people with flat feet and one kidney.

The maps you use are trash. Of course everyone votes against Russia right as it happens... Everyone also likes puppies! But that’s not the sanctions I addressed. You are constantly convoluting things in your replies.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/25/11/54644781-10550811-image-a-137_1645789878123.jpg These are the nations that imposed some sort of sanctions. All this condemnation talk and whatever else is worthless gibberish. Hint, MOST of the world is not sanctioning and when I drive to Mexico I can buy Russian products.

I do not care if Russia has foreign fighters. Just a few years ago some of our politicians were discussing trying to outlaw mercenaries, now we’re OK with it. In fact we are de facto paying for them and allowing for their ease of movement, recruiting... Just a few years ago the DOJ would have agents pay folks wanting to travel to a war zone a visit, we made traveling there difficult so they had to fly to Turkey and then get to Syria... Just a few years ago it was scandalous, appalling, horrible according to German media that the US would use evil Blackwater mercenaries in Iraq, now it’s OK in Ukraine. Inconsistent -

There’s just to much for me to dissect.

I suppose in the end time will tell who is right.

[BroJoeK]

Red6: "Israel has junk too.
Heck they were operating our Vietnam era river boats when I was there in 95, they were still using no kidding WWII Sherman tanks in some roles in their military.
I think they still use the M60 and maybe even 48.
Desperate and with their back to the wall potentially, they try to use everything they can including old junk and people with flat feet and one kidney."

I'm sure you understand that everything military is relative, meaning, for examples, muskets are perfectly adequate hardware if your enemy has only spears and arrows.
Once he also has muskets, then you will need rifles, and when he gets rifles, then you will need repeating or revolving weapons, etc., etc.

So Israel has the latest in hi-tech where that's what's needed (i.e., Iron Dome), but where older tech is perfectly adequate, they still use it.

Red6: "The maps you use are trash.
Of course everyone votes against Russia right as it happens... Everyone also likes puppies!
But that’s not the sanctions I addressed.
You are constantly convoluting things in your replies."

Those maps I posted in #77 are perfectly fine in illustrating certain levels of opposition to Vlad the Invader's rape of Ukraine.
They show which countries were willing to stand up publicly in the UN, and which countries supply aid to Ukraine.

Your map of sanctions is roughly the same as the map showing countries sending aid to Ukraine:

Red6: "These are the nations that imposed some sort of sanctions.
All this condemnation talk and whatever else is worthless gibberish.
Hint, MOST of the world is not sanctioning and when I drive to Mexico I can buy Russian products."

You or I don't know the real story on how much western sanctions are hurting Russia's economy & military effort.
What we do know is that Vlad the Invader claims sanctions have no effect, but when a Wall Street Journal reporter attempted to report truthfully on Russians' suffering, Vlad had him arrested and jailed.
So maybe the truth about Russia is not quite as rosy as Vlad would like us to believe?

The countries your map shows are basically NATO and our Pacific allies -- Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia & New Zealand.
Combined, these make up about half of the world's GDP.

The BRICS (I call them CRIBS, putting China and Russia first) -- China, Russia, India, Brazil & South Africa -- combined represent about 1/3 of the world's GDP.

All other countries combined represent the remaining 1/6 of global GDP.

Red6: "I do not care if Russia has foreign fighters. "

Of course you don't, but somehow you do claim to care about foreigners fighting for Ukraine??
Do you also claim to be sane?

Red6: "Just a few years ago some of our politicians were discussing trying to outlaw mercenaries, now we’re OK"

Does the name Black Rock mean anything to you?
IIRC, they were contractors hired by the US to protect high value assets in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.
I never heard anybody seriously suggest we should replace all those "mercenaries" with US regular army forces.
But maybe you read different news sources than I do?

Red6: "Just a few years ago it was scandalous, appalling, horrible according to German media that the US would use evil Blackwater mercenaries in Iraq, now it’s OK in Ukraine. Inconsistent -"

Oh, now I see... you've been reading the German media, they being perched high above the fray, carping and complaining about how the US leads wars which are intended to also protect Germany.
I say, let them carp and complain, and when they decide to come down off their perch and help out, we will be certain not to publicly criticize them for any failures, real or imagined.
We love the Germans, we like having them on our side, and we'll be very happy when they begin to contribute their fair share to keeping world peace.

Red6: "There’s just to much for me to dissect.
I suppose in the end time will tell who is right."

All I've seen here from you is some random comments, true enough as far as they go, but far, far from the whole truth and nothing but.