Posted on 09/16/2017 7:53:01 PM PDT by grundle
When I encounter large companies acting in what appears to be a fraudulent matter, I presume I'm not special and that the company is harming the public in general. At that point I go slightly nuts and get far too aggressive (my wife says the right word is "rude") on the phone with customer support people who are not fundamentally at fault.
This happened yesterday with Amazon. I tried to wiggle out of my bad behavior to my wife using economics. I explained to my wife that being aggressive is a form of economic signaling to make people take your concerns seriously. But she would have none of that. "Rude is rude. Imagine you were at the other end of that call? How would you like being treated that way?"
She's right and I hereby issue a blanket apology to anyone in a customer support role that I've treated rudely over the phone in my 65 years on the planet. I also hope to be better behaved in the future.
Now to my concern about Amazon's shipping policy. And this is not connected to Amazon Prime, which has been the subject of several different class action lawsuits.
On Monday (November 21st, Today is November 23th), I purchased a birthday present for my wife directly from Amazon. Her birthday is on Saturday, but I wanted to ensure it arrived in time given the holiday traffic. So I paid an extra $30 for next day delivery. But at the back of my mind I sensed I had just thrown away $30. I buy a lot of things from Amazon and, while I haven't documented the number of cases, I have often paid for next-day delivery, yet the package didn't arrive on time.
I checked yesterday (Tuesday) using Amazon's tracking info and all looked good. The present would arrive by 8 PM. But when 8:30 PM showed up on the clock and the package hadn't arrived, I called Amazon's customer support. After the usual wait time, the Amazon support person came on the phone and was extremely polite. She immediately got UPS on the phone. UPS said they had no record of receiving the package, whereas Amazon's tracking said they had. I asked (with a rude tone of voice) how could that be? Isn't it the same electronic system being used? No answer. I wasn't sure they were getting my question, so I asked a few more times. Still no answer. UPS: We never received it. Amazon: We can't say where it is until UPS scans it. "But your system shows it handed over to UPS?" No answer.
The UPS person, who was also very polite, signed off. I asked the Amazon person, still amazingly polite, to please issue a refund for the $30. No, it's not yet midnight and, in any case, you need to contact the shipper, UPS, for a refund?
"But I paid Amazon the $30?"
"Yes, but the shipper is responsible."
"I write a column for Forbes that covers consumer fraud. This sounds like consumer fraud. Can you please have a supervisor call me. Here's my number."
"Please hold on."
"Ten minutes on hold and the supervisor was on the phone." Also very polite. "My colleague was wrong about the refund. I'm also going to refund your payment and extend your Amazon Prime service for one month."
"Thank you. But I'm interested in a bigger question. If Amazon sells expedited shipping and the parcel doesn't arrive on time, which Amazon can tell from its electronic tracking system, does Amazon refund the expedited shipping fee automatically? Or does the customer have to call?"
"The customer has to call."
"But many customers don't have time to call and be kept on hold and then reach someone and then told they have to argue with UPS and then be kept on hold to talk to a supervisor. You know from your electronic records when a customer paid for expedited shipping and it didn't take place. Also, shouldn't Amazon go back in its electronic records and discover all the people who paid for expedited shipping that wasn't provided and issue them refunds? Aren't you engaging in consumer fraud?"
"No one has ever suggested this before. I'll send an email to our technical team and maybe they'll consider doing this. Have a lovely Thanksgiving."
Now my blood was boiling. So was my wife's who thought I had used an angry tone of voice and was abusing powerless people in a huge company.
This morning I checked on Amazon. From their tracking system, the package sat with UPS for 24 hours in Kentucky and supposedly was sent out for delivery at 6:32 AM. It's exactly four hours later - no package. Amazon's system now "guarantees" delivery by 8 PM.
Bottom line. Amazon should immediately implement an automatic refund policy re charging customers for shipping services that they don't then provide. And the company should refund all payments for shipping services that were paid for, but weren't provided in the past. Amazon has the electronic means to do this. Not doing so truly does represent a form of theft. If Amazon's refund policy is not corrected immediately, I would hope some enterprising lawyer starts a class action suit against the company.
There is my issue. I have never had a UPS delivered Amazon package be late, but at least 1/2 of those that UPS turns over to USPS to deliver are late. Some are delivered to neighbors, some marked unable to deliver due to a dog (which we don't have) and many marked delivered that come sometime in the next 2 days.
Lately, it’s been awful.
Exactly. I had a cousin pass away recently in Australia and sent flowers via FTD. The time was short and I specifically asked about the time to the order taker. No problem. Turns out it was since whoever they used delivered them 7 hours late. The memorial service long over. Took me almost a month to find this out. They issued a refund but the failed implied promise ruined things.
I find Amazon to be far more blessing than curse.
It’s screw you customer, but not fraud.
It’s interesting how peoples’ experiences can vary. I’ve never had a shipping mishap with Amazon. In fact, they usually exceed my expectations. But I always have in the back of my mind the possibility of stuff happening, and allow enough time to implement a plan B if plan A goes belly-up. Allegations of corporate fraud seem a bit overwrought, and taking it out on customer service people is NEVER the right thing to do. How about remembering your wife’s birthday (or whomever) more than 24 hours from the date?!
It seems from browsing through these post that much depends on service locally.
Fortunately for me, the vast majority of my Amazon purchases, and they are a lot of them, are on time or early. Not unusual to get Sunday evening deliveries via USPS even.
Don't make me laugh, add I sit here the next day and my FedEx package, which is on the truck for delivery as of 5:10a yesterday, is still on the truck!
But it didn't arrive at FR until today?
I'm calling Forbes right now!!!
Companies have to be complaint driven, they can’t just watch all the tracking numbers and make assumptions for one thing UPS lies. And when you do complain Amazon is very responsive. I had one large order I swear UPS ran it over, the box was split, about a third of the stuff wasn’t there, half of what was left was damaged. I took a bunch of pictures, e-mailed Amazon to start the process, figured we’d have to go itemized, they apologized and just sent out the entire order again, didn’t ask for pictures or anything. Good enough for me.
I was just on chat with Amazon, I had payed for one day shipping, and the current delivery is 9-19. They have initiated a refund of the expedited shipping charge in under 10 minutes.. Your mileage may vary
I think that is because on anything other than a guaranteed express delivery the USPS's anticipated date is "a week or so" . On the other hand UPS and FedEx have anticipated times based on scheduled routes which are nearly impossible to beat and are occasionally missed if a package is misrouted or a truck is late.
Granted, he should have an avenue to get a refund but he still caused his own problem.
Very clever. :)
That’s a good point. Many low income people in my area, especially elderly, walk, use public transportation, wait at bus stops a lot, etc.
It may depend on whether you’re in a metropolitan or more suburban or rural area. We’re in the DC metro area.
(I was looking at a video this morning about Barrow, Alaska, and told my husband, so much for Amazon, if we lived in a place like that. Everything has to come by plane, with perhaps a few boats a year, and you pay exorbitantly for everything ;-)
“I asked (with a rude tone of voice) how could that be? Isn’t it the same electronic system being used?”
I can answer this. Amazon has a database called a warehouse management system. UPS is on their own warehouse management system. Amazon is scanning the package stating they dropped it or shipped it someplace. This does not mean that UPS has accepted it. It may be sitting in a truck at the UPS location waiting to be unloaded 10 containers down the list. Until UPS scans acceptance they cannot say where it is and it is not in their possession but in the possession of the trucking company with the bill of lading.
Amazon knows this.. they just don’t want to say it because it continues to be something they have less control of - depending on who is doing the trucking.
If it doesn’t arrive on time there should be an auto refund of the additional charges - but I’m not holding my breath. Just plan better and don’t pay for the extra charges.
I have ordered items several times late on a Sunday evening that came with FREE shipping, or $5.00 shipping charge, and I've received the item on Tuesday morning before 10:30 AM via UPS delivery.
The turnaround time from order to delivery was approx 36 hours.
The moral of the story: Live in a city with an Amazon fulfillment center and there is NO NEED to enroll in Amazon's Prime.
I have ordered items several times late on a Sunday evening that came with FREE shipping, or $5.00 shipping charge, and I've received the item on Tuesday morning before 10:30 AM via UPS delivery.
The turnaround time from order to delivery was approx 36 hours.
The moral of the story: Live in a city with an Amazon fulfillment center and there is NO NEED to enroll in Amazon's Prime.
You’re a good sport, which we don’t have enough of these days.
Cheers!
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