Posted on 09/16/2017 7:53:01 PM PDT by grundle
When I encounter large companies acting in what appears to be a fraudulent matter, I presume I'm not special and that the company is harming the public in general. At that point I go slightly nuts and get far too aggressive (my wife says the right word is "rude") on the phone with customer support people who are not fundamentally at fault.
This happened yesterday with Amazon. I tried to wiggle out of my bad behavior to my wife using economics. I explained to my wife that being aggressive is a form of economic signaling to make people take your concerns seriously. But she would have none of that. "Rude is rude. Imagine you were at the other end of that call? How would you like being treated that way?"
She's right and I hereby issue a blanket apology to anyone in a customer support role that I've treated rudely over the phone in my 65 years on the planet. I also hope to be better behaved in the future.
Now to my concern about Amazon's shipping policy. And this is not connected to Amazon Prime, which has been the subject of several different class action lawsuits.
On Monday (November 21st, Today is November 23th), I purchased a birthday present for my wife directly from Amazon. Her birthday is on Saturday, but I wanted to ensure it arrived in time given the holiday traffic. So I paid an extra $30 for next day delivery. But at the back of my mind I sensed I had just thrown away $30. I buy a lot of things from Amazon and, while I haven't documented the number of cases, I have often paid for next-day delivery, yet the package didn't arrive on time.
I checked yesterday (Tuesday) using Amazon's tracking info and all looked good. The present would arrive by 8 PM. But when 8:30 PM showed up on the clock and the package hadn't arrived, I called Amazon's customer support. After the usual wait time, the Amazon support person came on the phone and was extremely polite. She immediately got UPS on the phone. UPS said they had no record of receiving the package, whereas Amazon's tracking said they had. I asked (with a rude tone of voice) how could that be? Isn't it the same electronic system being used? No answer. I wasn't sure they were getting my question, so I asked a few more times. Still no answer. UPS: We never received it. Amazon: We can't say where it is until UPS scans it. "But your system shows it handed over to UPS?" No answer.
The UPS person, who was also very polite, signed off. I asked the Amazon person, still amazingly polite, to please issue a refund for the $30. No, it's not yet midnight and, in any case, you need to contact the shipper, UPS, for a refund?
"But I paid Amazon the $30?"
"Yes, but the shipper is responsible."
"I write a column for Forbes that covers consumer fraud. This sounds like consumer fraud. Can you please have a supervisor call me. Here's my number."
"Please hold on."
"Ten minutes on hold and the supervisor was on the phone." Also very polite. "My colleague was wrong about the refund. I'm also going to refund your payment and extend your Amazon Prime service for one month."
"Thank you. But I'm interested in a bigger question. If Amazon sells expedited shipping and the parcel doesn't arrive on time, which Amazon can tell from its electronic tracking system, does Amazon refund the expedited shipping fee automatically? Or does the customer have to call?"
"The customer has to call."
"But many customers don't have time to call and be kept on hold and then reach someone and then told they have to argue with UPS and then be kept on hold to talk to a supervisor. You know from your electronic records when a customer paid for expedited shipping and it didn't take place. Also, shouldn't Amazon go back in its electronic records and discover all the people who paid for expedited shipping that wasn't provided and issue them refunds? Aren't you engaging in consumer fraud?"
"No one has ever suggested this before. I'll send an email to our technical team and maybe they'll consider doing this. Have a lovely Thanksgiving."
Now my blood was boiling. So was my wife's who thought I had used an angry tone of voice and was abusing powerless people in a huge company.
This morning I checked on Amazon. From their tracking system, the package sat with UPS for 24 hours in Kentucky and supposedly was sent out for delivery at 6:32 AM. It's exactly four hours later - no package. Amazon's system now "guarantees" delivery by 8 PM.
Bottom line. Amazon should immediately implement an automatic refund policy re charging customers for shipping services that they don't then provide. And the company should refund all payments for shipping services that were paid for, but weren't provided in the past. Amazon has the electronic means to do this. Not doing so truly does represent a form of theft. If Amazon's refund policy is not corrected immediately, I would hope some enterprising lawyer starts a class action suit against the company.
We have the opposite. Around here UPS is as reliable as the sunrise and the worst in On-track flowed by the USPS and Fed-ex brings up the rear. I am talking hundreds of packages both at business and home.
The two worst delivery methods Amazon is using is USPS and Laser Ship. I have had very little problems with UPS or Fed-X but USPS is getting worse and worse for delivery and Laser Ship is basically your neighbor next door delivering your items. Good luck with that.
I was wondering if that was a local situation or if it's more widespread. I would prefer to never have UPS delivering things. It seems that whenever a package is late or tracking is not current, it's UPS that's in charge.
Another situation that's not terrific sometimes happens with FedEx. Sometimes they transfer packages to the postal service for home delivery. The problem with that is it might sit in a FedEx store for a day or two, just two miles from here, and there's no way for me to get it at that point.
If that's the case, it's insane. and not just with lobster. A lot of truly needy food subsidized people have long bus and/or walking time to get to the store. It would make more sense to bring home meats and seafood that are not raw.
“The problem is with UPS, whom they are paying to get the delivery made”
UPS delivers the heavy stuff. The lighter packages are handed off to USPS to effect local deliveries.
BTW, you are still paying for shipping. Even if you think it’s free. Ain’t nothing free in this world, ‘cept Jesus.
“BTW, you are still paying for shipping. Even if you think it’s free.”
Absolutely true. Still, the psychology of seeing that “free shipping” on the screen is effective.
My sister never had a problem with deliveries from Amazon — until she signed up for Prime. Were so many different issues I can’t name them all. It was a mess. Not sure if it ever improved, but for a couple months it was a nightmare.
You prepaid your shipping already through tax subsidy. So as a customer, shut up & go away.
Fed Ex air ships your package. Amazon does not own the final leg, which is union UPS owned, or Govt USPS owned, so as a paying customer,
SHUT UP AND GO AWAY. Lmao.
If a shipper bankrupts, Amazons does not inform you, they collect people’s money, so as a customer,
SHUT UP AND GO AWAY!
Build a brick, wide container that holds packages, replace your mailbox from letter to a package receiver, and like package mailboxes, you can receive packages at the end of your driveway.
Let me know if you find a package mailbox receiver, I haven’t found one yet.
I know of a number of small businesses that have either stopped dealing with USPS or are warning customers that the dates USPS provides are often BS. FWIW, I’ve never had an issue with FedEx, and UPS only when the USPS was involved.
Here’s a thought - don’t put off the important stuff and then expect others to cover for you.....
marked4later
You're an idiot, or at least your statement is idiotic!
Expecting a service paid for or expressed for as a part of a purchase is NOT expecting 'others to cover for you'! It's just as it is - a promise, a commitment, an expectation.
Assert the penalty clause.
Failure to deliver within the promised limits triggers a failure to delivery penalty of $25. Then send Amazon an invoice
When they don’t pay, sue in small claims court for the $25 plus $100 for legal fees
Customer service depends on we’re the call center is..if it is in the south they tend to be much better....you may not get what you want but there friendly....
I grew up in NYS..moved to Colorado and now live in Florida...
Never realized how rude and obnoxious people from the NE can be..
till I moved here..
USPS had better wake up to their delivery problem. Unionized letter carriers are not helping their deflated brand.
Watching the tracking, I can tell that UPS is dropping most of those transfer packages off at the local post office long before the carrier leaves on the route.
But for reasons, I understand far too well, those packages are not committed for delivery that day, but rather are held at the office for the next day.
Now my recent story that really sets me off.
I ordered an item via Amazon Prime. When those items come an a weekend they get delivered via a USPS employee. USPS entered into a contract with Amazon to make these weekend, Sunday and Holiday deliveries when UPS could not offer the service.
During the week, both UPS and USPS delivery bring the packages to the doorstep. However the gal that USPS found to work here on Sundays often leaves the package on the ground below the mailbox, or at the garage door. both locations unprotected from the weather.
I also use the Amazon locker service which I love. Now I can have surprise items delivered without scrutiny (What did you get or worse I opened the package thinking it was for me)
Now the story - I ordered an item that Amazon promised to delivery by Labor Day. I elected delivery to a nearby Amazon Locker. I tracked the item to my community, noting that it was scheduled for delivery that day, Labor Day. No notice of delivery
The next morning, Amazon informed me that the package could not be delivered as the business was closed. Okay, I thought, it might have happened. So I swung by the 24/7 convenience store/gas station where Amazon set up their locker. I found the store manager on duty and asked if they had taken the prior day off and he said, No, they had been open. Then I asked what would you say to a USPS carrier that told Amazon they could not deliver yesterday as the business was closed.
The Manager replied :They would be lying!"
I wanted the item by the day promised. The delivery person dropped that ball. Amazon promised a full refund on locker items not picked up, so Amazon got it back.
Now I think I know what really happened. The holiday delivery person was not properly equipped to deliver to the locker (training, missing keys, code or equipment) so they blamed it on a closed business.
Amazon - USPS was in default of your contract. Hold them accountable.
Amazon is a horizontally integrated tax avoidance scheme
that sounds like a package delivered to a wrong address, and that person brought it to you and dropped it off. I would call it extra credit.
Amazon does have some of the nicest customer service people. They are easy to contact and will call you immediately if you make a complaint. They have always settled fairly.
I have noticed that the USPS screws up deliveries.Any time I have had a problem, they are the culprit.
I am not certain, but, I believe the only items that are guaranteed 2 day prime delivery are items fulfilled by Amazon.
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