Is Amazon's Shipping Policy A Form Of Consumer Fraud?

Forbes ^ | Laurence Kotlikoff | May 23, 2016

[grundle]

When I encounter large companies acting in what appears to be a fraudulent matter, I presume I'm not special and that the company is harming the public in general. At that point I go slightly nuts and get far too aggressive (my wife says the right word is "rude") on the phone with customer support people who are not fundamentally at fault.

This happened yesterday with Amazon. I tried to wiggle out of my bad behavior to my wife using economics. I explained to my wife that being aggressive is a form of economic signaling to make people take your concerns seriously. But she would have none of that. "Rude is rude. Imagine you were at the other end of that call? How would you like being treated that way?"

She's right and I hereby issue a blanket apology to anyone in a customer support role that I've treated rudely over the phone in my 65 years on the planet. I also hope to be better behaved in the future.

Now to my concern about Amazon's shipping policy. And this is not connected to Amazon Prime, which has been the subject of several different class action lawsuits.

On Monday (November 21st, Today is November 23th), I purchased a birthday present for my wife directly from Amazon. Her birthday is on Saturday, but I wanted to ensure it arrived in time given the holiday traffic. So I paid an extra $30 for next day delivery. But at the back of my mind I sensed I had just thrown away $30. I buy a lot of things from Amazon and, while I haven't documented the number of cases, I have often paid for next-day delivery, yet the package didn't arrive on time.

I checked yesterday (Tuesday) using Amazon's tracking info and all looked good. The present would arrive by 8 PM. But when 8:30 PM showed up on the clock and the package hadn't arrived, I called Amazon's customer support. After the usual wait time, the Amazon support person came on the phone and was extremely polite. She immediately got UPS on the phone. UPS said they had no record of receiving the package, whereas Amazon's tracking said they had. I asked (with a rude tone of voice) how could that be? Isn't it the same electronic system being used? No answer. I wasn't sure they were getting my question, so I asked a few more times. Still no answer. UPS: We never received it. Amazon: We can't say where it is until UPS scans it. "But your system shows it handed over to UPS?" No answer.

The UPS person, who was also very polite, signed off. I asked the Amazon person, still amazingly polite, to please issue a refund for the $30. No, it's not yet midnight and, in any case, you need to contact the shipper, UPS, for a refund?

"But I paid Amazon the $30?"

"Yes, but the shipper is responsible."

"I write a column for Forbes that covers consumer fraud. This sounds like consumer fraud. Can you please have a supervisor call me. Here's my number."

"Please hold on."

"Ten minutes on hold and the supervisor was on the phone." Also very polite. "My colleague was wrong about the refund. I'm also going to refund your payment and extend your Amazon Prime service for one month."

"Thank you. But I'm interested in a bigger question. If Amazon sells expedited shipping and the parcel doesn't arrive on time, which Amazon can tell from its electronic tracking system, does Amazon refund the expedited shipping fee automatically? Or does the customer have to call?"

"The customer has to call."

"But many customers don't have time to call and be kept on hold and then reach someone and then told they have to argue with UPS and then be kept on hold to talk to a supervisor. You know from your electronic records when a customer paid for expedited shipping and it didn't take place. Also, shouldn't Amazon go back in its electronic records and discover all the people who paid for expedited shipping that wasn't provided and issue them refunds? Aren't you engaging in consumer fraud?"

"No one has ever suggested this before. I'll send an email to our technical team and maybe they'll consider doing this. Have a lovely Thanksgiving."

Now my blood was boiling. So was my wife's who thought I had used an angry tone of voice and was abusing powerless people in a huge company.

This morning I checked on Amazon. From their tracking system, the package sat with UPS for 24 hours in Kentucky and supposedly was sent out for delivery at 6:32 AM. It's exactly four hours later - no package. Amazon's system now "guarantees" delivery by 8 PM.

Bottom line. Amazon should immediately implement an automatic refund policy re charging customers for shipping services that they don't then provide. And the company should refund all payments for shipping services that were paid for, but weren't provided in the past. Amazon has the electronic means to do this. Not doing so truly does represent a form of theft. If Amazon's refund policy is not corrected immediately, I would hope some enterprising lawyer starts a class action suit against the company.

[RightGeek]

FedEx bought the Yellow Freight company and made it FedEx Ground. In my experience they are the absolute worst. On the other hand, the old FedEx overnight service is still great.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Maybe it’s regional, but where I live, I’ve had TWO packages marked as “Delivered” on time when they were not delivered at all. Amazon gave me a full refund. Weirdly, about a month later, I got one of the packages anyway, so I had two, the one I originally ordered and the one Amazon gave me. Not sure what they were doing with the package all that time.

[RightGeek]

Oops, not Yellow Freight, Roadway Package Systems

[Reno89519]

Why are you not signed up for Prime. I use Amazon Prime and order next day and 2-day all the time and very, very rarely encounter a problem. When I call Amazon I get someone immediately and the bend over backwards to solve the problem. Maybe because I am a Prime member, but regardless, I have never had cause to complain about Amazon’s service. Never. Now, about Bezo’s politics, sure.

[House Atreides]

There was a time when Amazon Prime REALLY meant 2 day delivery. Now it frequently does not.

[Poison Pill]

These ultramegahuge companies (Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft) long ago tripped the anti-trust trigger. If AT&T needed a breakup, why doesn’t Google?

[OldMissileer]

The USPS has lost 3 of our packages and delivers the rest 3-4 days later.

In the past year I have had USPS report five packages as delivered, noted on both their web site and Amazon, and have had the packages delivered 24 to 48 hours later.

I notified Amazon about this deceptive practice but have heard nothing in return but it has been at least five months since the last time that happened.

[TomGuy]

Half of the stuff I have ordered as Prime took more than the 2 days to deliver.

Right now I have a Prime order I made last weekend. Latest notification — it is scheduled to be delivered this coming Monday or maybe next Thursday. Monday will make it about 8 days late.

[Reno89519]

I avoid this problem with USPS and the local carriers that Amazon uses on the weekends by timing my orders. Amazon is great, UPS an FedEx equally so, but USPS and whatever their local clowns are is just awful. Too bad we cannot pick delivery service. While my just posted comment says no issues with Amazon, I should have noted that I do have one with USPS and their local delivery services.

[OldMissileer]

Monday, I found a generator part I needed. The Amazon webpage said 2-day prime, since I pay a yearly fee for that. Delivery Sept 20th. Now this was Sept. 11th. That’s 9 days not two days.

Four days ago I ordered a pressure brake bleeder and bought from Prime instead of the other offers. I did not notice that they had placed a notice in small light green print on the final page (click to purchase) that it would not be available until Nov 23.

Since I need that bleeder ASAP I cancelled the Prime order and paid four dollars more to one of the other offering companies and that bleeder is scheduled to arrive this Tuesday.

I have had this happen before by overlooking the green print and wondered how they get away with the deception. It should be in large print on the initial product page that the item will not be available immediately.

[matthew fuller]

Why is this historical article in “News”? Isn’t this FR fraud?

[American in Israel]

I doubt it was Amazon. They hand off your package to an 18 wheel box trailer. When the driver takes the shipment, Amazon computer indicates that the dipper took delivery. However the shipper does not indicate they received the package till they open the trailer and scan that label into their system.

A UPS truck breakdown between amazon and the UPS hub would cause your exact problem.

[Sans-Culotte]

You may be in area having problems due to storms. I had several so-called Prime shipments delayed as well due to impassable roads due to Hurricane Harvey (I am in the Houston area). If you live in the Tampa area, you may be in a similar situation.

[Sivad]

Where I the see the problem is that the farther the
customer gets from the customer service rep on the
phone the dicier things can get. The CSRs are trained
to handle any situation in a polite way, showing
empathy. They depend on others who do not have a direct
link to the consumer. The farther the consumer gets
from the CSR the less interest there is in solving
problems expeditiously. Too often the CSR has too little
authority to get others in the supply chain to do
their jobs.

Once I worked in sales for a major window manufacturer.
They had a good philosophy about the supply chain from
consumer to delivery person. Everyone along the chain
was considered a customer of the next department up
line including all elements of the manufacturing
process. The only time the system really broke down was
when some oaf with connections was placed in a position
where they could mess things up without consequences.

[aquila48]

He probably would get upset if you pointed that out.

[Jamestown1630]

Our main problem with FedEx is that sometimes they have claimed that they tried to deliver and we weren’t home - when we were sitting right here waiting for the knock on the door.

And we have had some problems with the ‘LaserShip’. The drivers haven’t seemed to know the area and ‘get lost.’

Also, when they ‘hand off’ to USPS for the final stage of delivery, the tracking seems to sometimes show your package as ‘delivered’, when it’s actually at the local post office and will take another day.

But in general, my experiences with Amazon have been great. Returns are easy, and if something is damaged refunds are immediate.

[Mears]

“but USPS and whatever their local clowns are is just awful. “

---

I had an awful problem with Amazon/USPS over Labor Day weekend.

I placed the order late Thursday night before the holiday and was told the delivery would be the following Tue thru Fri.That was fine.

For some strange reason I decided to track the order Sunday and was told they were here that day and couldn’t deliver-—Reason:Business closed.

I live in a residential apartment building and was home.

I did complain to Amazon and was told I would be given a $5.00 credit-—VERY annoying problem.

.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Hmm, maybe that’s what’s going on then. Packages getting “handed off” to USPS, and then the package simply never arrives.

But as for Amazon, I would say they have the best customer service of anyone I have ever dealt with. They’re not the types to fight over refunds. In fact, 100% of the time they offer a refund before the thought has even crossed my mind!

[Jamestown1630]

What’s impressed me is the success we’ve had purchasing so many items ‘sight unseen’. Hundreds of purchases over the years, and only two small, inexpensive items that were defective/damaged or ‘not as described’.

I know a lot of people have various issues with Amazon, but they’ve been a great service for us.

[rlmorel]

I have a problem with Amazon, that for me is just as important, though not related to this.

I found this page on Amazon's website. It offers Amazon Prime membership at $5.99 a month.

If you click the link "See other plans", this is what you are offered:

EBT holders get membership at about 1/2 price.

This kind of thing makes me angry. Why should I have to subsidize EBT recipients? I don't have an Amazon Prime membership, though I have considered it. Is it just me, or does this piss off anyone else?

If someone is an EBT holder, why are we giving those benefits to someone when they have enough money to spend it on things like Amazon Prime?

This raises the same level of frustration in me (at the innate waste and abuse of my tax dollars in the same way this sign, which I took a picture of at a grocery store near me does):

When I saw this, my mouth dropped open. I can afford it, but for me, lobster is an occasional treat, a self-imposed perception of luxury due to the cost.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but...this is another thing about Amazon that really bugs me. I still use them occasionally, but if I had an Amazon Prime membership, I would be doubly pissed.