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Does Belief in True Conservatism, Require One to Reject Equality?

Posted on 12/08/2016 7:21:17 AM PST by pinochet

A conservative is one who rejects, not only Marxism, but also the socialist and Jacobin ideologies which existed before the Marxist ideology came into existence. Marxism, socialism and Jacobinism, are the product of radical egalitarianism.

20th century American conservatives have exaggerated the differences between European conservatives and America's the founding fathers in the 1700s. European conservatism was about defending Monarchy and Aristocracy. America's founding fathers opposed King George III, but that does not mean they were hostile to all Kings.

Jefferson was a great admirer of the ancient Persian King, Cyrus the Great, and got some of his ideas on religious freedom from the religious tolerance that Cyrus promoted in ancient Persia. Jefferson also opposed the Jacobins of France, and was opposed to the removal of King Louis XVI, whom he thought should remain as a constitutional monarch

https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/french-revolution

Jefferson was also a believer in a "natural aristocracy" among men. In a letter to John Adams, Jefferson said:

"For I agree with you that there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents....There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class. The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society."

America's founding fathers were not hostile to monarchy and aristocracy. They just opposed King George III.

Christianity has historically taught that all souls are equal, in the sense that they have equal chance in acquiring salvation. But for most of its existence, Christianity has supported monarchy and aristocracy, as the natural way of governing human societies. That means, Christianity taught that human beings were unequal, despite having equal souls.

We must see human inequality as a way in which God distributes different talents to different people. Conservatives instinctively understand, that everyone cannot be as good in physics as Albert Einstein, even if everyone got the best physics teacher to teach him.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: Virginia; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: altright; bellcurve; conservatism; equality; socialism; ubermensch; vanity
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To: SauronOfMordor

Heaven protect us from people who think they are special.


21 posted on 12/08/2016 7:51:09 AM PST by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either satire or opinion. Or both.)
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To: rjsimmon; pinochet; goldstategop
we were commanded to treat each other as brothers and sisters despite our caste, or what social status

There is equality in our being Children Of God

it would be lunacy to make all people "equal" in this world. It is an impossibility. Jesus' philosophy is that in his kingdom you have to serve everyone else, in love. this tends to reinforce humility and selflessness which would help people (particularly less fortunate), but still not 'equalize' anything. i dont know what 'equal souls' mean either. i tend to think even in the kingdom of heaven people are unequal. will everyone get the same reward in the end?
22 posted on 12/08/2016 7:52:04 AM PST by wafflehouse (RE-ELECT NO ONE !)
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To: pinochet

No there is not a rejection of “equality” in the sense that every individual should be able to rise to whatever level their talents and experience allow. What is rejected is the idea that people should receive an equality of result regardless of their behavior, talent, or experience. The left has increasingly demanded that fictions be enshrined in law such as ssm insisting that homosexuality be considered “equal” though it is not in form or function but of course that does not matter. The left is about denying reality and using law as projection of power to force their views on the body politic.


23 posted on 12/08/2016 7:52:44 AM PST by Maelstorm (Free is just another word for someone else has to pay.)
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To: LukeL

Equal under the Law


24 posted on 12/08/2016 7:55:02 AM PST by aumrl (let's keep it real Conservatives)
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To: goldstategop

Profound...Freedom is what determines outcome! With “equality” freedom diminishes.


25 posted on 12/08/2016 7:55:42 AM PST by goodnesswins (Say hello to President Trump)
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To: pinochet
People make different decisions that lead to different outcomes. Good choices (work hard, get married, etc.) generally lead to good outcomes, while bad choices (laziness, drugs, children outside of marriage) lead to bad outcomes.

The worst thing the left has done to our society is to mitigate the natural outcome of bad choices in the name of equality, thereby rewarding and promoting behavior that is destructive to individuals and society.

26 posted on 12/08/2016 7:57:25 AM PST by servantoftheservant
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To: pinochet
Parable of the Vineyard.. Matthew 20:1-16

16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

27 posted on 12/08/2016 8:02:12 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: pinochet

To answer the title question:

Equality of what? Equality of origin and ability has never existed.

Equality of opportunity, of laws and the rule of law can most certainly be accepted by conservatives.


28 posted on 12/08/2016 8:03:47 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: DiogenesLamp
Indeed. There isn't that much of an inherent leap from "We're all God's Children" to Marxist notions of equality among individuals and nations.

You see some of this in alliances between certain religious groups with the Marxist Left in welcoming Third World refugees to the US and Europe.

29 posted on 12/08/2016 8:07:06 AM PST by ek_hornbeck
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To: pinochet

The corollary is that wage inequality is derived from human inequality

Employers discriminate against applicants by picking those perceived as being most qualified.


30 posted on 12/08/2016 8:08:00 AM PST by bert (K.E.; N.P.; GOPc;WASP .... Macroagression melts snowflakes)
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To: pinochet

Here’s a wrench:

“Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.”—Romans 9

Amen!


31 posted on 12/08/2016 8:11:58 AM PST by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: Brilliant
No one really believes in equality.

The leaders of Leftist movements don't believe in equality ("All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" is their motto), but the ignorant rank and file who support these movements usually do believe in it. Talk of equality is a powerful political tool to recruit people from the dregs of society (and naive kids on college campuses) to serve as cannon fodder for the Left.

32 posted on 12/08/2016 8:14:18 AM PST by ek_hornbeck
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To: pinochet

Not hostile to monarchy??? Article 1 Sec 9 clause 8.


33 posted on 12/08/2016 8:15:38 AM PST by xkaydet65
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To: avenir
There is no such thing as “equality”. Men and women are supposed to compliment each other and not dominate each other. Differences are hardwired and biological. You cannot legislate them away. This whole diversity-equality BS is just...BS.
34 posted on 12/08/2016 8:18:37 AM PST by MasterGunner01 ( To err is human, to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX:)
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To: pinochet
"Equality" in America means "equal opportunity," not "equal outcomes."

Even if the person does not have the innate skill to be a physicist, they have the equal opportunity to apply to the college, albeit being a wasted effort.

-PJ

35 posted on 12/08/2016 8:22:27 AM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: pinochet
What do we affirm as conservatives?

Equal dignity in the eyes of God, yes.

Equal justice under Law, yes.

Equal opportunity in education, employment, and the professions, yes.

Equal courtesy and civility, yes.

Equal expectation that the same will be reciprocal, yes.

Equal outcomes, no.

36 posted on 12/08/2016 8:30:11 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you DO read it, you're misinformed. - Twain)
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To: pinochet

Jeff Beck plays a Stratocaster better than I do, so he gets paid better than I would. Norm MacDonald is funnier than I am, so he gets paid better to do stand-up than I would. Jessica Alba is way better looking than I am, so she’d get more than I could ever hope to get for posing for a calendar.

But if all four of us ran the same stop sign, Jeff Beck, Norm MacDonald and I should pay the exact same fine.

Jessica Alba would, of course, be not guilty.

j/k


37 posted on 12/08/2016 8:37:41 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: MasterGunner01

True!


38 posted on 12/08/2016 8:48:57 AM PST by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: avenir

Amen.

The author: “Christianity has historically taught that all souls are equal, in the sense that they have equal chance in acquiring salvation.”

Salvation come from God and by God alone. Jesus is the Way. God does nothing “by chance”. Because all glory is His, he is not a respecter of persons.


39 posted on 12/08/2016 8:52:55 AM PST by Theophilus (#RepentTrump)
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To: pinochet
The following is quoted from the Liberty Fund Library "A Plea for Liberty: An Argument Against Socialism and Socialistic Legislation," edited by Thomas Mackay (1849 - 1912), Chapter 1, final paragraphs from Edward Stanley Robertson's essay, "The Impracticability of Socialism":

Note the writer's emphasis that the "scheme of Socialism" requires what he calls "the power of restraining the increase in population"--long the essential and primary focus of the Democrat Party in the U. S.:

"I have suggested that the scheme of Socialism is wholly incomplete unless it includes a power of restraining the increase of population, which power is so unwelcome to Englishmen that the very mention of it seems to require an apology. I have showed that in France, where restraints on multiplication have been adopted into the popular code of morals, there is discontent on the one hand at the slow rate of increase, while on the other, there is still a 'proletariat,' and Socialism is still a power in politics.
I.44
"I have put the question, how Socialism would treat the residuum of the working class and of all classes—the class, not specially vicious, nor even necessarily idle, but below the average in power of will and in steadiness of purpose. I have intimated that such persons, if they belong to the upper or middle classes, are kept straight by the fear of falling out of class, and in the working class by positive fear of want. But since Socialism purposes to eliminate the fear of want, and since under Socialism the hierarchy of classes will either not exist at all or be wholly transformed, there remains for such persons no motive at all except physical coercion. Are we to imprison or flog all the 'ne'er-do-wells'?
I.45
"I began this paper by pointing out that there are inequalities and anomalies in the material world, some of which, like the obliquity of the ecliptic and the consequent inequality of the day's length, cannot be redressed at all. Others, like the caprices of sunshine and rainfall in different climates, can be mitigated, but must on the whole be endured. I am very far from asserting that the inequalities and anomalies of human society are strictly parallel with those of material nature. I fully admit that we are under an obligation to control nature so far as we can. But I think I have shown that the Socialist scheme cannot be relied upon to control nature, because it refuses to obey her. Socialism attempts to vanquish nature by a front attack. Individualism, on the contrary, is the recognition, in social politics, that nature has a beneficent as well as a malignant side. . . .
I.46
"Freedom is the most valuable of all human possessions, next after life itself. It is more valuable, in a manner, than even health. No human agency can secure health; but good laws, justly administered, can and do secure freedom. Freedom, indeed, is almost the only thing that law can secure. Law cannot secure equality, nor can it secure prosperity. In the direction of equality, all that law can do is to secure fair play, which is equality of rights but is not equality of conditions. In the direction of prosperity, all that law can do is to keep the road open. That is the Quintessence of Individualism, and it may fairly challenge comparison with that Quintessence of Socialism we have been discussing. Socialism, disguise it how we may, is the negation of Freedom. That it is so, and that it is also a scheme not capable of producing even material comfort in exchange for the abnegations of Freedom, I think the foregoing considerations amply prove."
EDWARD STANLEY ROBERTSON

40 posted on 12/08/2016 8:53:39 AM PST by loveliberty2
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