Posted on 10/25/2015 6:55:01 PM PDT by markomalley
Until now, Donald Trump and Ben Carson have been content to co-exist as the two Republican “outsiders” dominating the presidential campaign scene.
Together, the bombastic billionaire real estate executive and the eerily soft-spoken former neurosurgeon have shared about half of the overall Republican support in the presidential sweepstakes while the other candidates have languished with single digit showings in the polls. But as Trump and Carson prepare for another crucial Republican presidential debate in Boulder, Colorado on Wednesday, the gloves are definitely coming off.
With two new polls showing Carson surging ahead of Trump in Iowa, Trump has begun lashing out with the same tactics he has used effectively against former Florida governor Jeb Bush earlier this year – saying that Carson lacks the energy and negotiating smarts to be president and that he is too soft on immigration. “Carson is lower energy than Bush,” Trump declared during a Jacksonville, Florida rally on Saturday. “I don’t understand what’s going on.”
Carson immediately retorted in Iowa that “My energy levels are perfectly fine,” noting that he often spent as many as 15 to 20 hours in the operating room during his career as a nationally renowned surgeon. In an obvious reference to Trump’s showboating, combative political style, Carson added that “jumping up and down and screaming” doesn’t qualify one to be president.
During an appearance on NBC News’ Meet the Press today, Carson said that Trump and other critics often mistake his soft-spoken manner as a sign of a lack of energy. “I have plenty of energy,” he said. “But, you know, I am soft-spoken. “I do have a tendency to be relaxed. I wasn't always like that. There was a time when I was, you know, very volatile. But, you know, I changed.”
Over the weekend, Trump also veered into more treacherous political territory – and may have offended the state’s politically active evangelical Christians -- by singling out Carson’s Seventh-day Adventist faith and suggesting that it somehow puts his chief rival on the religious fringes when contrasted with Trump’s more “middle of the road” Presbyterian faith.
“I’m Presbyterian,” Trump said on Saturday in Jacksonville. “Boy, that’s down the middle of the road, folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh-day Adventist I don’t know about. I just don’t know about it.”
Carson angrily demanded an apology. He also suggested during an interview on Fox News Sunday that Trump’s outbursts might be a sign of desperation, especially his attack on Carson’s religious faith after complaining two months ago that Carson had improperly questioned his own faith.
Back in September, Carson caused a stir when he credited his faith for his success in life and contrasted that with Trump, who had said that he never asked God for forgiveness and refused to cite his favorite Bible verse. Carson later apologized.
“He went a little ballistic on that, so it seems a little interesting that he would now be doing that,” Carson said. “You know, I really refuse to get in the mud pit. You know, Hillary [Clinton] was actually right when she said the Republicans are there trying to destroy each other. I really think that was a huge mistake in the last [presidential election] cycle, and I’m certainly not going to get into that no matter what anybody says.”
Evangelical voters make up a substantial part of the Iowa’s Republican base, and it’s a group that Trump has had difficulty wooing. Why he called out Carson on being a Seventh Day Adventist and further offending evangelicals more generally is hard to fathom.
By Sunday, Trump was back-pedaling on the controversy, even while refusing to apologize to Carson for having raised the topic in the first place. Questioned by George Stephanopoulos of ABC News’ This Week on why he even brought up the subject, Trump sputtered, “I just don’t know about that particular religion.”
“I would never say bad about any religion,” Trump said. “I said, ‘I don’t know about it.’ That’s not an insult.”
For a front-running candidate who lives and breathes polling results and who has been riding the crest of an anti-establishment movement in his party, Trump suddenly has something to worry about.
(The above -- downloadable on all 10 Q&A): 10 Questions and Answers on Seventh-Day Adventism [downloadable]
See also: AdventistExodus.com
Only for “fallen angelsL. We are not fallen angels. We go to oblivion. Actually Jesus used “Gehenna” which referred to the city dump wher all rotted away to nothingness.
Wait, Bill Miller was Goldwaters VP candidate !! What ever.
I’ve often thought about that, too.
The William Miller I mean had the sad distinction of being the “hub” for a half-dozen aberrant sects.
I don’t think many people are aware of it- I stumbled across it looking for the voting records and ideologies of candidates-
I would encourage you to read the books that I linked.
After reading them come back and tell me that Ellen White didn’t think Jesus was part of the Holy Trinity.
The Seventh-Day Adventist church believes and teaches there is a Holy Trinity and the Jesus Christ is God the Son.
As for references to him as an Angel, I’d need to read more than an isolated sentence to make a determination on what is being referenced in what context.
Isn’t it interesting our dicussion on this matter, considering we have an Islamic adherent in the White House, and nobody except Conservatives really care?
I don’t think Carson is presidential material, but I do take offense when folks toss out the “CULT” card. The SDA Church is so far from being a cult, that using it in connection to the church destroys the word for future use.
“Oh this group was reported to be doing all sorts of bad things only a cult would, but I remember them calling Adventists a cult too and I know them and they aren’t. I guess this group may not be either.” That’s what’s taking place here.
Our views on religion should not make us unelectable. Kennedy was a Catholic, and it never mattered. Nixon was a Quaker. I don’t think he brought his Quaker beliefs to work. Obama is the only guy I know of who did bring his “religion” in, (and I do consider this to be a cult), and it is Islam.
Christian based religions are not going to cause problems. Adventists blend into a community and don’t cause problems. That’s what other church’s members do.
I see this said, but I can’t understand that logic.
Christ fulfilled the “sacrificial laws”, those of sacrificing animals to signify the death of a sacrificial lamb. Jesus was the fulfillment of that law. An animal didn’t need to be slaughtered to point to a future sacrifice. Jesus was that sacrificial lamb for us.
The “Sacrificial laws” ended at the cross.
The observance of the Ten Commandments did not end.
Did murder suddenly become acceptable because Christ died on the cross? Did theft, adulty, covetry, and the other laws suddenly stop being wrong? Of course not.
The Ten Commandments were still in force.
As for our good works earning us a way to heaven, you’re right. There’s no way to heaven except through Jesus Christ. We cannot be perfect and “buy” our way in through acts. However...
You’ll never sell me on the idea we get to do anything we want, and we’ll still be saved. I can’t murder, rape, steal, and do many other things and be saved. Even then, if true repentance enters in, you can be saved, but the repentance must be real and we must try to live a good life after that.
What is baptism all about? It signifies dying to sin, and being reborn in the nature of Jesus Christ. Once baptized we move forward trying to do God’s will, live a good life, and reign in our sinful desires.
Are we going to make it? Will we be perfect? Of course not. We’re human. We make mistakes daily and try to do better. God does not want us to develop ulcers over the attempt to avoid sin, but He does expect us to continually improve our character to live as good a life as we can.
Jesus didn’t die on the cross to give us carte blanche when it comes to committing all the “fun” sins we want.
If we love Him, we keep His Commandments.
Let me close with this thought. If we sin freely in our course of life here on earth, what joy will there be in heaven for us?
We need to learn to live as if we are in heaven already. When we enter paradise, we’ll be right at home.
Thought I made that clear somewhere yesterday on one of these threads, but I don’t see it now.
I was raised a Seventh-Day Adventist and believe it’s teachings.
I am not an practicing SDA and would urge folks not to look at me as an example of a good SDA.
I’ve spend enough time in the church to know what it’s teachings and beliefs are.
As a rule, I don’t attach my church affiliation on every post, even on this topic. I’m not asking you yours either.
No being hypocritical in the least. Religious differences do not map onto civilizational differences. Baptists vs Jew, and Islamic vs Western tell two different tales.
Well, Joseph Smith paraphrased the Bible for the “book of mormon”behind a curtain with his stenographer on the other side but we just move on like that didn’t happen. These sects just take on a life of their own. They are all franchise operations with the franchisee sending 8% of gross to the franchisor .
You are so right, friend!
Ford saw the writing on the wall. They realize that by the time their big plant in Mexico is ready to open that Donald Trump will be President! And what will follow is a good 35% tax on every car AND part coming into the US from Mexico!
They are not dumb businessmen in control of FORD. They made the right decision.....build in the USA!
As you said, Carson is not presidential material.
That said, many conservative evangelicals still support his candidacy based on a perceived purity on their favorite issues. The women among us, especially, love his dulcet tones when he speaks, and his demure demeanor.
If he were to get the nomination, unfortunately, his church’s views that condemn Sunday worship, and those who practice it, would at some point come to the fore.
That is why I view him as merely a place-holder in the race at this time.
Where his supporters will go when he is out of the race is anyone’s guess. I venture that they will go to the candidate who was sweetest toward him; but I don’t know.
Be careful here. It would also be easy to say that Trump was soft on illegal immigration before he was against it (he thought Romney was too tough on the subject), and that he was for abortion on demand before he was against it. If you want others to accept that Trump could change his views on those subjects, you need to also accept that Carson can change his views on them.
That poll actually came out yesterday. There have been six Iowa polls released since Thursday. They have shown (in order of release) Carson +8, Carson +9, Carson +8, tie, Carson +12, Carson +14. So which one seems to be the outlier?
Great victory for Trump !!!
Sounds more like a great victory for Kasich - I doubt Trump had anything to do with the decision, but I'm sure the Ohio governor was involved in the negotiations...
I can’t imagine a situation where Carson would tap his religion to do something against other religions. The populace should understand that.
That sort of thing would be unconstitutional, in that any edict by the government along those lines would be establishing core religious tenets on behalf of the government.
I don’t support Carson as a Seventh-Day Adventist, just to show how much I buy into that being an important aspect of him.
We need a good chief executive officer, and IMO Trump is it.
I further stated that since he's been harping on this Ford issue from the gitgo...it'll make no matter about that second-tier Kasich or anyone else or anything else....and guess who neatly positioned himself to get the credit for Ford not moving this plant to Mejico...Trump, of course!
And I'm gonna help that line of thinking move along and get embedded in folks' thinking, heheh.
Leni
CARSON has never explained why he changed his viewpoints. It appears his change of heart is poll driven.
TRUMP has sincerely explained his positions before he even ran for POTUS.
CRUZ has been on the right side every time. CRUZ 2016
Trump is it. You and I agree on that in a BIG way.
Thanks for the cordial discussion.
That’s the way all FReeps should operate.
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