Posted on 09/20/2013 4:29:03 AM PDT by spirited irish
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son” (1 John 2:22).
“And the fifth angel sounded the trumpet, and I saw a star fall from heaven upon the earth, and there was given to him the key of the bottomless pit." (Rev. 9:1)
In his Concise Commentary Matthew Henry identifies falling stars as tepid, indecisive, weak or apostate clergy who,
"Having ceased to be a minister of Christ, he who is represented by this star becomes the minister of the devil; and lets loose the powers of hell against the churches of Christ."
John identifies antichrists, in this case clergy who serve the devil rather than Christ, sequentially. First, like Bultmann, Teilhard de Chardin, Robert Funk, Paul Tillich, and John Shelby Spong, they specifically deny the living, personal Holy Trinity in favor of Gnostic pagan, immanent or Eastern pantheist conceptions. Though God the Father Almighty in three Persons upholds the souls of men and maintains life and creation, His substance is not within nature (space-time dimension) as pantheism maintains, but outside of it. Sinful men live within nature and are burdened by time and mortality; God is not.
Second, the specific denial of the Father logically negates Jesus the Christ, the Word who was in the beginning (John 1), was with God, and is God from the creation of all things (1 John 1). In a pre-incarnate theophany, Jesus is the Angel who spoke “mouth to mouth” to Moses (Num. 12:6-9; John 9:20) and at sundry times and in many ways “spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all…” (Hebrews 1:1) Jesus the Christ is the incarnate Son of God who is the life and light of men, who by His shed blood on the Cross died for the remission of all sins and bestowed the privilege of adoption on all who put their faith in Him.
Therefore, to deny the Holy Father is to logically deny the deity of Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God, hence,
“…every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist . . . and even now already is it in the world” (1 John 4:3).
According to Peter (2 Peter 2:1), falling stars will work among the faithful, teaching damnable heresies that deny the Lord, cause the fall of men into unbelief, and bring destruction upon themselves:
“The natural parents of modern unbelief turn out to have been the guardians of belief.” Many thinking people came at last “to realize that it was religion, not science or social change that gave birth to unbelief. Having made God more and more like man---intellectually, morally, emotionally---the shapers of religion made it feasible to abandon God, to believe simply in man.” (James Turner of the University of Michigan in “American Babylon,” Richard John Neuhaus, p. 95)
Falling Stars and Damnable Heresy
Almost thirty years ago, two well-respected social science scholars, William Sims Bainbridge and Rodney Stark found themselves alarmed by what they saw as a rising tide of irrationalism, superstition and occultism---channeling cults, spirit familiars, necromancers, Wiccans, Satanists, Luciferians, goddess worshippers, 'gay' shamans, Hermetic magicians and other occult madness at every level of society, particularly within the most influential--- Hollywood, academia and the highest corridors of political power.
Like many scientists, they were equally concerned by Christian opposition to naturalistic evolution. As is common in the science community, they assumed the cause of these social pathologies was somehow due to fundamentalism, their term for authentic Christian theism as opposed to liberalized Christianity. Yet to their credit, the research they undertook to discover the cause was conducted both scientifically and with great integrity. What they found was so startling it caused them to re-evaluate their attitude toward authentic Christian theism. Their findings led them to say:
"It would be a mistake to conclude that fundamentalists oppose all science (when in reality they but oppose) a single theory (that) directly contradicts the bible. But it would be an equally great mistake to conclude that religious liberals and the irreligious possess superior minds of great rationality, to see them as modern personalities who have no need of the supernatural or any propensity to believe unscientific superstitions. On the contrary...they are much more likely to accept the new superstitions. It is the fundamentalists who appear most virtuous according to scientific standards when we examine the cults and pseudo-sciences proliferating in our society today." ("Superstitions, Old and New," The Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. IV, No. 4; summer, 1980)
In more detail they observed that authentic ‘born again’ Christians are far less likely to accept cults and pseudoscientific beliefs while the irreligious and liberalized Christians (i.e., progressive Catholics, Protestant emergent, NAR, word faith, prosperity gospel) are open to unscientific notions. In fact, these two groups are most disposed toward occultism.
As Bainbridge and Stark admitted, evolution directly contradicts the Bible, beginning with the Genesis account of creation ex nihilo. This means that evolution is the antithesis of the Genesis account. For this reason, discerning Christians refuse to submit to the evolutionary thinking that has swept Western and American society. Nor do they accept the evolutionary theism brought into the whole body of the Church by weak, tepid, indecisive, or apostate clergy.
Over eighty years ago, Rev. C. Leopold Clarke wrote that priests who embrace evolution (evolutionary theists) are apostates from the ‘Truth as it is in Jesus.’ (1 John2:2) Rev. Clarke, a lecturer at a London Bible college, discerned that evolution is the antithesis to the Revelation of God in the Deity of Jesus Christ, thus it is the greatest and most active agent of moral and spiritual disintegration:
“It is a battering-ram of unbelief---a sapping and mining operation that intends to blow Religion sky-high. The one thing which the human mind demands in its conception of God, is that, being Almighty, He works sovereignly and miraculously---and this is the thing with which Evolution dispenses….Already a tremendous effect, on a wide scale has been produced by the impact of this teaching---an effect which can only be likened to the…collapse of foundations…” (Evolution and the Break-Up of Christendom, Philip Bell, creation.com, Nov. 27, 2012)
The faith of the Christian Church and of the average Christian has had, and still has, its foundation as much in the literal and historic meaning of Genesis, the book of beginnings revealed ‘mouth to mouth’ by the Angel to Moses, as in that of the person and deity of Jesus Christ. But how horrible a travesty of the sacred office of the Christian Ministry to see church leaders more eager to be abreast of the times, than earnestly contending for the Faith once delivered unto the saints (Jude 1:3). It is high time, said Rev. Clarke, that the Church,
“…. separated herself from the humiliating entanglement attending her desire to be thought up to date…What, after all, have custodians of Divine Revelation to do making terms with speculative Biology, which has….no message of comfort or help to the soul?” (ibid)
The primary tactic employed by priests eager to accommodate themselves and the Church to modern science and evolutionary thinking is predictable. It is the argument that evolution is entirely compatible with the Bible when we see Genesis, especially the first three chapters, in a non-literal, non-historical context. This is the argument embraced and advanced by mega-church pastor Timothy J. Keller.
With a position paper Keller published with the theistic evolutionary organization Bio Logos he joined the ranks of falling stars (Catholic and Protestant priests) stretching back to the Renaissance. Their slippery-slide into apostasy began when they gave into the temptation to embrace a non-literal, non-historical view of Genesis. (A response to Timothy Keller’s ‘Creation, Evolution and Christian Laypeople,” Lita Cosner, Sept. 9, 2010, creation.com)
This is not a heresy unique to modern times. The early Church Fathers dealt with this damnable heresy as well, counting it among the heretical tendencies of the Origenists. Fourth-century Fathers such as John Chrysostom, Basil the Great and Ephraim the Syrian, all of whom wrote commentaries on Genesis, specifically warned against treating Genesis as an unhistorical myth or allegory. John Chrysostom strongly warned against paying heed to these heretics,
“…let us stop up our hearing against them, and let us believe the Divine Scripture, and following what is written in it, let us strive to preserve in our souls sound dogmas.” (Genesis, Creation, and Early Man, Fr. Seraphim Rose, p. 31)
As St. Cyril of Alexandria wrote, higher theological, spiritual meaning is founded upon humble, simple faith in the literal and historic meaning of Genesis and one cannot apprehend rightly the Scriptures without believing in the historical reality of the events and people they describe. (ibid, Seraphim Rose, p. 40)
In the integral worldview teachings of the Fathers, neither the literal nor historical meaning of the Revelations of the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Angel who spoke to Moses, can be regarded as expendable. There are at least four critically important reasons why. First, to reduce the Revelation of God to allegory and myth is to contradict and usurp the authority of God, ultimately deny the deity of Jesus Christ; twist, distort, add to and subtract from the entire Bible and finally, to imperil the salvation of believers.
Scenarios commonly proposed by modern Origenists posit a cleverly disguised pantheist/immanent nature deity subject to the space-time dimension and forces of evolution. But as noted previously, it is sinful man who carries the burden of time, not God. This is a crucial point, for when evolutionary theists add millions and billions of zeros (time) to God they have transferred their own limitations onto Him. They have ‘limited’ God and made Him over in their own image. This is not only idolatrous but satanic.
Additionally, evolution inverts creation. In place of God’s good creation from which men fell there is an evolutionary escalator starting at the bottom with matter, then progressing upward toward life, then up and through the life and death of millions of evolved creatures that preceded humans by millions of years until at long last an apish humanoid emerges into which a deity that is always in a state of becoming (evolving) places a soul.
Evolution amputates the entire historical precedent from the Gospel and makes Jesus Christ unnecessary as the atheist Frank Zindler enthusiastically points out:
“The most devastating thing that biology did to Christianity was the discovery of biological evolution. Now that we know that Adam and Eve never were real people the central myth of Christianity is destroyed. If there never was an Adam and Eve, there never was an original sin. If there never was an original sin there is no need of salvation. If there is no need of salvation there is no need of a saviour. And I submit that puts Jesus…into the ranks of the unemployed. I think evolution absolutely is the death knell of Christianity.” (“Atheism vs. Christianity,” 1996, Lita Cosner, creation.com, June 13, 2013)
None of this was lost on Darwin’s bulldog, Thomas Henry Huxley (1825-1985). Huxley was thoroughly familiar with the Bible, thus he understood that if Genesis is not the authoritative Word of God, is not historical and literal despite its’ symbolic and poetic elements, then the entirety of Scripture becomes a collection of fairytales resulting in tragic downward spiraling consequences as the Catholic Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation makes clear in part:
“By denying the historical truth of the first chapters of Genesis, theistic evolutionism has fostered a preoccupation with natural causes almost to the exclusion of supernatural ones. By denying the several supernatural creative acts of God in Genesis, and by downplaying the importance of the supernatural activity of Satan, theistic evolutionists slip into a naturalistic mentality which seeks to explain everything in terms of natural causes. Once this mentality takes hold, it is easy for men to regard the concept of spiritual warfare as a holdover from the days of primitive superstition. Diabolical activity is reduced to material or psychological causes. The devil and his demons come to be seen as irrelevant. Soon ‘hell’ joins the devil and his demons in the category of antiquated concepts. And the theistic evolutionist easily makes the fatal mistake of thinking that he has nothing more to fear from the devil and his angels. According to Fr. Gabriele Amorth, the chief exorcist of Rome, there is a tremendous increase in diabolical activity and influence in the formerly Christian world. And yet most of the bishops of Europe no longer believe in the existence of evil spirits….To the Fathers of the Church who believed in the truth of Genesis, this would be incredible. But in view of the almost universal acceptance of theistic evolution, it is hardly surprising.” (The Difference it makes: The Importance of the Traditional Doctrine of Creation, Hugh Owen, kolbecenter.org)
Huxley had ‘zero’ respect for modern Origenists and received enormous pleasure from heaping piles of hot coals and burning contempt upon them, thereby exposing their shallow-reasoning, hypocrisy, timidity, fear of non-acceptance, and unfaithfulness. With sarcasm dripping from his words he quipped,
“I am fairly at a loss to comprehend how any one, for a moment, can doubt that Christian theology must stand or fall with the historical trustworthiness of the Jewish Scriptures. The very conception of the Messiah, or Christ, is inextricably interwoven with Jewish history; the identification of Jesus of Nazareth with that Messiah rests upon the interpretation of passages of the Hebrew Scriptures which have no evidential value unless they possess the historical character assigned to them. If the covenant with Abraham was not made; if circumcision and sacrifices were not ordained by Jahveh; if the “ten words” were not written by God’s hand on the stone tables; if Abraham is more or less a mythical hero, such as Theseus; the story of the Deluge a fiction; that of the Fall a legend; and that of the creation the dream of a seer; if all these definite and detailed narratives of apparently real events have no more value as history than have the stories of the regal period of Rome—what is to be said about the Messianic doctrine, which is so much less clearly enunciated? And what about the authority of the writers of the books of the New Testament, who, on this theory, have not merely accepted flimsy fictions for solid truths, but have built the very foundations of Christian dogma upon legendary quicksands?” (Darwin’s Bulldog---Thomas Huxley, Russell Grigg, creation.com, Oct. 14, 2008)
Pouring more contempt on them he asked,
“When Jesus spoke, as of a matter of fact, that "the Flood came and destroyed them all," did he believe that the Deluge really took place, or not? It seems to me that, as the narrative mentions Noah’s wife, and his sons’ wives, there is good scriptural warranty for the statement that the antediluvians married and were given in marriage; and I should have thought that their eating and drinking might be assumed by the firmest believer in the literal truth of the story. Moreover, I venture to ask what sort of value, as an illustration of God’s methods of dealing with sin, has an account of an event that never happened? If no Flood swept the careless people away, how is the warning of more worth than the cry of “Wolf” when there is no wolf? If Jonah’s three days’ residence in the whale is not an “admitted reality,” how could it “warrant belief” in the “coming resurrection?” … Suppose that a Conservative orator warns his hearers to beware of great political and social changes, lest they end, as in France, in the domination of a Robespierre; what becomes, not only of his argument, but of his veracity, if he, personally, does not believe that Robespierre existed and did the deeds attributed to him?” (ibid)
Concerning Matthew 19:5:
“If divine authority is not here claimed for the twenty-fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis, what is the value of language? And again, I ask, if one may play fast and loose with the story of the Fall as a “type” or “allegory,” what becomes of the foundation of Pauline theology?” (ibid)
And concerning Cor. 15:21-22:
“If Adam may be held to be no more real a personage than Prometheus, and if the story of the Fall is merely an instructive “type,” comparable to the profound Promethean mythus, what value has Paul’s dialectic?” (ibid)
After much thought, C.S. Lewis concluded that evolution is the central, most radical lie at the center of a vast network of lies within which modern Westerners are entangled while Rev. Clarke identifies the central lie as the Gospel of another Spirit. The fiendish aim of this Spirit is to help men lose God, not find Him, and by contradicting the Divine Redeemer, compromising Priests are serving this Spirit and its’ diabolical purposes. To contradict the Divine Redeemer is the very essence of unfaithfulness, and that it should be done while reverence is professed,
“…. is an illustration of the intellectual and moral topsy-turvydom of Modernism…’He whom God hath sent speaketh the Words of God,’ claimed Christ of Himself (John 3:34), and no assumption of error can hold water in the face of that declaration, without blasphemy.” Evolutionary theists are serving the devil, therefore “no considerations of Christian charity, of tolerance, of policy, can exonerate Christian leaders or Churches who fail to condemn and to sever themselves from compromising, cowardly, shilly-shallying priests”---the falling stars who “challenge the Divine Authority of Jesus Christ.” (ibid)
The rebuttals, warnings and counsels of the Fathers against listening to Origenists (and their modern evolutionary counterparts) indicates that the spirit of antichrist operating through modern rationalistic criticism of the Revelation of God is not a heresy unique to our times but was inveighed against by early Church Fathers.
From the scholarly writings of the Eastern Orthodox priest, Fr. Seraphim Rose, to the incisive analysis, rebuttals and warnings of the Catholic Kolbe Center, creation.com, Creation Research Institute, Rev. Clarke, and many other stalwart defenders of the faith once delivered, all are a clear, compelling call to the whole body of the Church to hold fast to the traditional doctrine of creation as it was handed down from the Apostles, for as God spoke and Jesus is the Living Word incarnate, it is incumbent upon the faithful to submit their wills to the Divine Will and Authority of God rather than to the damnable heresy proffered by falling stars eager to embrace naturalistic science and the devil's antithesis--- evolution. But if it seem evil to you to serve the Lord,
“…you have your choice: choose this day that which pleases you, whom you would rather serve….but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15
Kevmo/Christ repeats his baseless accusations.
First Kevmo claims to be Jesus, now to be God himself?
And on top of that, Kevmo quotes from Gospel accounts of Jesus condemnation of "spiritual A$$#()[3S"
Can you please cite chapter & verse for such language?
First Kevmo claims to be Jesus, now to be God himself?
***Wow, heretic, you really have gone off the deep end.
Like hell you did.
***Well, aren’t you full of vehemence, especially for a troll who doesn’t honestly answer my questions.
Is that a question or a statement?
Yes
T4BTT
That’s how sophistry works.
T4BTT
It's not nice to spam a thread.
FRiend, I know how difficult this is for you, and how utterly confused you are, but YHAOS term "troll" was not addressed to yours truly, BroJoeK, but to tacticalogic.
Nor did YHAOS accuse tacticalogic of being a troll, only suggested that trolls on FR tend to eliminate themselves.
Kevmo quoting BJK: "There is no possible way — zero, zip, nada — that Romans would crucify anybody for the “crime” of blasphemy.
Kevmo responding: "***by the way, here you were simply arguing over & over again against something that I didn’t say, if anything it was a simple typo."
And this quote justifies which one of your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK?
Kevmo: "***YHAOS is correct here, and those posts where your disrespect and contempt came out would have been deleted."
Language in News/Activism forums is sometimes more rough-and-tumble than Religion forums.
And this justifies which of your accusations against me?
Kevmo quoting BJK: "But Ms irish’s accusations against Freemasons, especially our Founders’ Freemasonry, are not serious."
Kevmo responding: "***Here the mod would say you’re projecting and mind reading, not allowed."
Seriously? I can't imagine it.
BTW, the word "serious" in my sentence above refers to the "seriousness" of irish's accusations, not the "seriousness" of her mindset.
As such, it is a factual statement, and your accusations are ridiculous.
Kevmo quoting BJK: "Instead, they are the product of a mis-informed and malice-intending mind."
Kevmo responding: " ***the RM would definitely delete the post due to this statement.
Such provocations are not allowed even on open religion threads."
FRiend, I do "get" that you are highly confused and emotionally disturbed by the strong distinctions which Free Republic allows between its Religion Forum and News/Activism.
The truth is that my language here has been blunt, but very mild and restrained, even by News/Activism standards.
So, if you have a problem with that, then it is your problem, and you need to get help, and get over it.
Kevmo quoting BJK: " FRiend, I know that’s what you really intended to say"
Kevmo responding: "Post 1691, mind reading is not allowed"
But my post #1691 was simply a humorous/sarcastic response to some totally ridiculous accusations.
Even granting your claim (which I can't verify) that such responses are not allowed in Religion Forum, they are totally acceptable here, and indeed are the standard response to false accusations.
But to the point here: how does this quote justify any of your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK?
Kevmo quoting BJK: " Yes, I “get” that you wish to focus, focus, focus on the guilt of the Jews, but I don’t see it that way."
Kevmo responding: "Post 1680 would definitely get removed and probably get you a warning from the mod."
Oh, and yet, despite your denials, isn't that precisely the effect of your letting Pilate off the hook for his role?
And how does this quote justify any of your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK?
Kevmo quoting BJK: "Post #1790 What is your problem, FRiend, do you think I’m making this up?"
Kevmo responding: "***Such hostility aint allowed. Would have been removed."
But perfectly acceptable on a News/Activism thread.
And how, exactly, does this justify any of your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK?
Kevmo: "Post #1734, you push Crossan.
Since he’s a heretic, such garbage wouldn’t be allowed on caucus threads, but perhaps the religion mod would allow it on open threads."
Sorry, FRiend, but Crossan is not a "heretic", he's a historian.
Only in your sick mind does "history" equal "heresy".
Kevmo quoting BJK: "This is a major issue with Kevmo, who seems pretty confused on the subject."
Kevmo responding: "Post #1740, making it personal.
Probably would get removed."
Perfectly acceptable for a News/Activism thread.
And how, exactly, does this justify any of your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK?
Kevmo: "Somewhere in there you are pushing freemasonry garbage.
That stuff wouldn’t be allowed on caucus threads.
Probably would be allowed on open threads."
Freemasonry was practiced by our Founding Fathers.
Do you not "get" that I am here defending their religious ideas?
Are you telling us that our Founding Fathers would not be allowed on a Free Republic Religion forum thread?
And your authority for this assertion is what, exactly, Kevmo?
And how, exactly, does this justify any of your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK?
Kevmo: "***By the way, here you start just being a plain troll, because you just repeat the same thing over and over again.
But apparently trolling is allowed on open religion threads, not caucus threads."
FRiends, where in the world do you ever get the idea that you are permitted to repeat your own arguments endlessly, but somehow BroJoeK is restricted to one time only in responding?
You have to know, that's just nuts.
If you wish to see BroJoeK stop repeating my responses, then stop repeating your yours.
And how, exactly, does this justify any of your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK?
Kevmo quoting BJK: "So why you continue to deny the obvious truth of this matter is beyond me."
Kevmo responding: "In post #1805 you attribute your own theory to a fact of history.
It is likely that the religion mod would not allow such obvious falsehoods, especially when accompanied by hostility."
But the obvious hostility is all yours, FRiend.
My statements are all truthful, to the best of my knowledge.
By that same standard, almost none of your are.
Sorry, but that's a fact.
And how, exactly, does this justify any of your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK?
Kevmo: "By post #1826, your sarcasm is dripping and it’s likely that most of your posts after that would be removed."
Kevmo quoting BJK: "FRiend, you are deeply, deeply confused about the difference between “history” and “religious faith”.
Your religious faith drives you to justify what the Bible says, and to ignore all other data."
Kevmo responding: "***Such statements are typically deleted and if this happens more than a couple of times, the religion mod asks you to leave the thread."
But they are acceptable in News/Activism threads, and so what is your problem?
And how, exactly, does this justify any of your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK?
Kevmo: "Go ahead and log onto some caucus or ecumenical threads to see how many of your hostile posts get deleted.
Maybe the religion mod allows some of your unhistorical heresy on some threads, maybe not.
But by the 1820’s on this thread, you’re a troll, a heretic, and have set the tone for a brouhaha."
But, but, but... dear FRiend, I did not go to your world.
I did not take onto myself your rules.
You came to, in effect, "my world" -- News/Activism.
The rules here are laxer, and when you start spreading BS, we call you on it HERE.
You don't get away with it here, and you can't hide behind the mods here.
Bottom line: nothing, nothing you've posted here justifies in any way your accusations against yours truly, BroJoeK.
Please don't give up on us.
There is always hope for sick minds...
Will somebody cite and example of disagreement between spirited irish and Kevmo?
It appears to me that you speak with one voice.
No "conspiracy theory" there, just fact.
FRiend, until recent years "heresy" was a capital offense, for which people were burned at the stake, sometimes drawn and quartered.
To accuse somebody of "heresy" then was a threat to have them murdered, and especially when the charge was false, the accusation itself was about as wicked as a person could get.
Today the charge of "heresy" is not a murder threat, but it is still, if not seriously justified, a very serious false accusation.
You will know how serious the charge is when you consider that such obvious candidates as Nancy Pelosi and Adolf Hitler were never formally charged.
Yours truly, BroJoeK, is far from "heretical" in any of my beliefs, and your accusations here are way, way out of line, even for the lax standards of a News/Activism forum.
Sorry, but there is no possible definition of the word "troll" met by tacticalogic's 100% reasonable responses to often ridiculous nonsense.
Of course, and there are plenty of other examples similar to that.
All of those examples qualify as pure "history".
But they are still part of the religious message taught by the Bible.
Do you "get" that: the Bible is 100% religion, much of which can be confirmed historically and scientifically?
Really, that's not a difficult concept to grasp, if you put your mind to it.
“Troll” = Those who do not open up and swallow unquestionably that which Kevmo decides to feed them (in between tantrums, of course).
Kevmo: "This and other scriptures you call “Proof Texts” and deny their simple meaning because you are pushing the heresy of denying the Deity of Christ."
First, dear FRiend, I again ask you to quote my words where I "deny the Deity of Christ".
Unless I've been somehow very careless, I haven't done that.
Second, Jesus himself is never quoted as claiming to be God Himself.
Third, there are indeed other interpretations for John's language, interpretations which certainly would not interest Kevmo in the least, and of which I'd never attempt to persuade you.
But let me at least tell you what those interpretations do, because they are important to understanding our Founding Fathers' deistic-Unitarian Christianity.
Those interpretations allow for the divinity of Christ while maintaining the Unity of God -- hence the term "Unitarian".
Kevmo: "***Other than the fact that you’ve been twisting what the bible says and pushing heretical teachings onto this thread, that’s a very noble sentiment."
In fact, I've "twisted" nothing.
I've only quoted chapter & verse as necessary.
Your interpretation of my words as "heresy" is unjustifiable.
Thank you for your support, I appreciate your kind words.
I am not afraid of poor souls like Kevmo.
They need professional theological help, which I can't give, but may just possibly motivate them to seek.
No, in all of John 8, Jesus was talking directly to men who denied that Jesus is Son of God.
I've done no such thing.
Your accusations are false, FRiend.
No, I argue that they say what they say.
You have interpreted them to mean something different.
I don't dispute that your interpretations are historically "orthodox".
But among history's unorthodox Christians were our Founding Fathers, and I'm here to defend their views.
I utterly reject your accusation that they were "damnable heretics".
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